weight lifting soreness not healing?

"james" wrote in message

> I've been lifting weights on and off the past 20 years. I know what
> it's like to have normal muscle soreness.
>
> But recently, I noticed some muscles stay sore for many days after I
> lifted weights, and I'm not even lifting much (just 10 reps, 1 set).
>
> For example, I might do some curls. The next day, my biceps feel fine,
> but some muscle near my thumb and some muscle near the elbow starts to
> feel sore. They are not constant soreness -- I cannot press on a spot
> and feel the soreness, rather, I have to be moving my arms/hand around
> to feel the sore/ache.
>
> Another time, after doing some legs extensions, my entire right leg,
> not just the quads, started to feel sore/numb (as if I slept on the
> leg) for a few days after that.
>
> Anyway, is there any guess as to what the cause may be or how to go
> about figuring out what's wrong?

Also consider what some of us have been saying for years - machines are
not a natural way to lift, and you will do better in the long run by
using free weights and big, compound movements as the basis for your
program.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

> "james" wrote in message
>
> > I've been lifting weights on and off the past 20 years. I know what
> > it's like to have normal muscle soreness.
> >
> > But recently, I noticed some muscles stay sore for many days after I
> > lifted weights, and I'm not even lifting much (just 10 reps, 1 set).
> >
> > For example, I might do some curls. The next day, my biceps feel fine,
> > but some muscle near my thumb and some muscle near the elbow starts to
> > feel sore. They are not constant soreness -- I cannot press on a spot
> > and feel the soreness, rather, I have to be moving my arms/hand around
> > to feel the sore/ache.
> >
> > Another time, after doing some legs extensions, my entire right leg,
> > not just the quads, started to feel sore/numb (as if I slept on the
> > leg) for a few days after that.
> >
> > Anyway, is there any guess as to what the cause may be or how to go
> > about figuring out what's wrong?
>
> Also consider what some of us have been saying for years - machines are
> not a natural way to lift, and you will do better in the long run by
> using free weights and big, compound movements as the basis for your
> program.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

Agreed.
It's also better for the peripheral support muscles if you know what I
mean. The ones involved in balance.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

Dnia 2008-11-27 Omelet napisa³(a):
> In article ,
> "Steve Freides" wrote:
>
>> Also consider what some of us have been saying for years - machines are
>> not a natural way to lift, and you will do better in the long run by
>> using free weights and big, compound movements as the basis for your
>> program.
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> Agreed.
> It's also better for the peripheral support muscles if you know what I
> mean. The ones involved in balance.

I'm not sure if you are pulling his leg, but this "functional training"
nonsense went *way* out of hand recently. One of the representative of
our national football team got injured in the gym recently, but how?
His S&C coach told him to do overhead squats on one leg! He lost it, he
fell, and he broke both his hands while trying to save his head from the
falling barbell.

I mean, that thing was a jaw dropper for me. I was literally speechless
for a moment after I heard it. The shear stupidity!

--
Andrzej Rosa
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

This guys a troll, see advertisement above!!

--
Burr
May I be as great as
my dog thinks I am.


"Omelet" wrote in message

> In article , "james" wrote:
>
>> I've been lifting weights on and off the past 20 years. I know what it's
>> like to have normal muscle soreness.
>>
>> But recently, I noticed some muscles stay sore for many days after I
>> lifted
>> weights, and I'm not even lifting much (just 10 reps, 1 set).
>>
>> For example, I might do some curls. The next day, my biceps feel fine,
>> but
>> some muscle near my thumb and some muscle near the elbow starts to feel
>> sore. They are not constant soreness -- I cannot press on a spot and feel
>> the soreness, rather, I have to be moving my arms/hand around to feel the
>> sore/ache.
>>
>> Another time, after doing some legs extensions, my entire right leg, not
>> just the quads, started to feel sore/numb (as if I slept on the leg) for
>> a
>> few days after that.
>>
>> Anyway, is there any guess as to what the cause may be or how to go about
>> figuring out what's wrong?
>
> Check your nutrition... Seriously.
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> "All People and things are interdependent. The world has become so small
> that no nation can solve its problems alone, in isolation from others.
> That is why I believe we must all cultivate a sense of responsibility
> based on love and compassion for each other." -- Dalai Lama
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

Dnia 2008-11-27 Burr napisa³(a):
> This guys a troll, see advertisement above!!

Technically it's called a spamer.

--
Andrzej Rosa
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:47:26 +0100, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Dnia 2008-11-27 Omelet napisał(a):
>> In article ,
>> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>
>>> > ...
> ... Especially if you take in account that the *main*
> purpose of weight training for football players is injury prevention.
>


i have never heard of weight training being prescribed to football
players for injury prevention, nor do i know of any players who hit the
weight room because they are hoping to avoid injury, unless by injury You
mean being stomped into the ground by the other team. The reason
football players (and many others athletes) go into the weight room is to
become bigger and stronger than their opponents, so they will be able
dominate them (as opposed to be being dominated by them). When they want
injury prevention or recovery, they frequently go to Yoga or something
similar, not weight training.

Training that comes with too high a risk of injury (single leg over-head
squats without adequate safety precautions) should be considered
unacceptable. But one S&C coach's mistake does not nullify the many
benefits of free-weight and functional training over machines. Machines
are the weight training equivalent of training wheels on a bicycle. They
make it as safe and easy as possible, but they also limit what You can do
and what You can get out of it.
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:07:50 +0100, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Dnia 2008-11-27 Omelet napisał(a):
>> In article ,
>> "Steve Freides" wrote:
>>
>>> Also consider what some of us have been saying for years - machines
>>> are not a natural way to lift, and you will do better in the long run
>>> by using free weights and big, compound movements as the basis for
>>> your program.
>>>
>>> -S-
>>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>> Agreed.
>> It's also better for the peripheral support muscles if you know what I
>> mean. The ones involved in balance.
>
> I'm not sure if you are pulling his leg, but this "functional training"
> nonsense went *way* out of hand recently. One of the representative of
> our national football team got injured in the gym recently, but how? His
> S&C coach told him to do overhead squats on one leg! He lost it, he
> fell, and he broke both his hands while trying to save his head from the
> falling barbell.
>
> I mean, that thing was a jaw dropper for me. I was literally speechless
> for a moment after I heard it. The shear stupidity!


There is difference between "functional" and just plain dangerous. That
S&C coach crossed that line, maybe not as far as Crossfit does on
occasion (clean & press on a wobble board for instance), but that coach
crossed it.

What makes a movement or exercise 'functional' is that it more closely
compares to movements from the sport or activity being trained for. For
football, i can see where overhead squats, even on one leg might be seen
as functional, but for safety there should be at least 2, if not 4,
spotters, or something to catch the bar if the lifter looses balance.
Without that, such a lift is just too risky. A far better (and more
"functional") choice would have been to push a sled with a stack of added
weight.

Free weights DO work more muscle that machine weights. The additional
muscle is mostly for stabilization. Try it for Yourself. Compare bench-
press on a machine to bench-press using a barbell, each loaded with the
same weight. Or to *Really* drive the point home, compare either of
those with dumbbell bench-press.
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

Dnia 2008-11-29 Shava_X napisa³(a):
> On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:47:26 +0100, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> Dnia 2008-11-27 Omelet napisa³(a):
>>> In article ,
>>> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>>
>>>> > ...
>> ... Especially if you take in account that the *main*
>> purpose of weight training for football players is injury prevention.
>>
>
>
> i have never heard of weight training being prescribed to football
> players for injury prevention, nor do i know of any players who hit the
> weight room because they are hoping to avoid injury,

How much did you read on the topic? I mean, which trainer said that
injury prevention was not the main goal?

> unless by injury You
> mean being stomped into the ground by the other team. The reason
> football players (and many others athletes) go into the weight room is to
> become bigger and stronger than their opponents, so they will be able
> dominate them (as opposed to be being dominated by them).

Since when being big is a good thing for a person who is expected to run
about 10 to 15 km?

> When they want
> injury prevention or recovery, they frequently go to Yoga or something
> similar, not weight training.
>
> Training that comes with too high a risk of injury (single leg over-head
> squats without adequate safety precautions) should be considered
> unacceptable. But one S&C coach's mistake does not nullify the many
> benefits of free-weight and functional training over machines. Machines
> are the weight training equivalent of training wheels on a bicycle. They
> make it as safe and easy as possible, but they also limit what You can do
> and what You can get out of it.

Yawn.

Anyway, I think you somehow assume that I was talking about American
football. I was not.

--
Andrzej Rosa
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

Dnia 2008-11-29 Shava_X napisa³(a):
> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:07:50 +0100, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if you are pulling his leg, but this "functional training"
>> nonsense went *way* out of hand recently. One of the representative of
>> our national football team got injured in the gym recently, but how? His
>> S&C coach told him to do overhead squats on one leg! He lost it, he
>> fell, and he broke both his hands while trying to save his head from the
>> falling barbell.
>>
>> I mean, that thing was a jaw dropper for me. I was literally speechless
>> for a moment after I heard it. The shear stupidity!
>
>
> There is difference between "functional" and just plain dangerous. That
> S&C coach crossed that line, maybe not as far as Crossfit does on
> occasion (clean & press on a wobble board for instance), but that coach
> crossed it.
>
> What makes a movement or exercise 'functional' is that it more closely
> compares to movements from the sport or activity being trained for. For
> football, i can see where overhead squats, even on one leg might be seen
> as functional, but for safety there should be at least 2, if not 4,
> spotters, or something to catch the bar if the lifter looses balance.
> Without that, such a lift is just too risky. A far better (and more
> "functional") choice would have been to push a sled with a stack of added
> weight.
>
> Free weights DO work more muscle that machine weights. The additional
> muscle is mostly for stabilization. Try it for Yourself. Compare bench-
> press on a machine to bench-press using a barbell, each loaded with the
> same weight. Or to *Really* drive the point home, compare either of
> those with dumbbell bench-press.

What if my barbell bench is higher than machine press? It used to be
last time I tried both. What if my dumbbell press is higher than a
barbell bench press? It could be.

Usually less stable movements are weaker than more stable ones, but it
is a matter of skill, not additional muscles needed for stabilization.
Untrained subjects use a lot of extra muscles, but well trained ones do
not. You'll find very few powerlifters who can press more on a machine
than with a barbell, I assure you.

Besides, if unstable moves use more muscles, then it follows that
pressing a pink dumbbell while standing on a swiss ball stacked on a
bosu-ball placed on a set of rollers recruits more muscles than moving a
ton of weigh on a leg press machine? That's obviously an absurd. You
recruit more muscles if you can move more weight. That simple.

--
Andrzej Rosa
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

"Shava_X" wrote

-snip-
> Compare bench-
> press on a machine to bench-press using a barbell, each loaded with
> the
> same weight.

You can't - machines are too different from one another, and some might
more weight to be used while others would allow less.

It's a good point you make, but I don't think you can "prove" it as you
suggest.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

Andrzej Rosa writes:

> Dnia 2008-11-27 Omelet napisał(a):
>> In article ,
>> "Steve Freides" wrote:
>>
>>> Also consider what some of us have been saying for years - machines are
>>> not a natural way to lift, and you will do better in the long run by
>>> using free weights and big, compound movements as the basis for your
>>> program.
>>>
>>> -S-
>>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>> Agreed.
>> It's also better for the peripheral support muscles if you know what I
>> mean. The ones involved in balance.

I thought you meant the ones I use when I pick up my printer

> I'm not sure if you are pulling his leg, but this "functional training"
> nonsense went *way* out of hand recently. One of the representative of
> our national football team got injured in the gym recently, but how?
> His S&C coach told him to do overhead squats on one leg! He lost it, he
> fell, and he broke both his hands while trying to save his head from the
> falling barbell.
>
> I mean, that thing was a jaw dropper for me. I was literally speechless
> for a moment after I heard it. The shear stupidity!

"Don't be an idiot" is a good rule to observe no matter what program
you're following. When I was in a cast I found a video of a guy doing
a one-legged clean and press with a kettlebell. I watched it once and
decided not to try that one. I'm trying to imagine what the coach
might have been thinking, and not getting anywhere.

By the way, the word you want there is sheer, not shear. Cliffs are
sheer, sheep are sheared.

--
Jim Janney
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

In article ,
Jim Janney wrote:

> Andrzej Rosa writes:
>
> > Dnia 2008-11-27 Omelet napisał(a):
> >> In article ,
> >> "Steve Freides" wrote:
> >>
> >>> Also consider what some of us have been saying for years - machines are
> >>> not a natural way to lift, and you will do better in the long run by
> >>> using free weights and big, compound movements as the basis for your
> >>> program.
> >>>
> >>> -S-
> >>> http://www.kbnj.com
> >>
> >> Agreed.
> >> It's also better for the peripheral support muscles if you know what I
> >> mean. The ones involved in balance.
>
> I thought you meant the ones I use when I pick up my printer
>
> > I'm not sure if you are pulling his leg, but this "functional training"
> > nonsense went *way* out of hand recently. One of the representative of
> > our national football team got injured in the gym recently, but how?
> > His S&C coach told him to do overhead squats on one leg! He lost it, he
> > fell, and he broke both his hands while trying to save his head from the
> > falling barbell.
> >
> > I mean, that thing was a jaw dropper for me. I was literally speechless
> > for a moment after I heard it. The shear stupidity!
>
> "Don't be an idiot" is a good rule to observe no matter what program
> you're following. When I was in a cast I found a video of a guy doing
> a one-legged clean and press with a kettlebell. I watched it once and
> decided not to try that one. I'm trying to imagine what the coach
> might have been thinking, and not getting anywhere.
>
> By the way, the word you want there is sheer, not shear. Cliffs are
> sheer, sheep are sheared.

Unfortunately, "common sense" appears to be an oxymoron...

Cheers!
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing? 

Dnia 2008-11-30 Jim Janney napisa³(a):
> Andrzej Rosa writes:
>
>> I'm not sure if you are pulling his leg, but this "functional training"
>> nonsense went *way* out of hand recently. One of the representative of
>> our national football team got injured in the gym recently, but how?
>> His S&C coach told him to do overhead squats on one leg! He lost it, he
>> fell, and he broke both his hands while trying to save his head from the
>> falling barbell.
>>
>> I mean, that thing was a jaw dropper for me. I was literally speechless
>> for a moment after I heard it. The shear stupidity!
>
> "Don't be an idiot" is a good rule to observe no matter what program
> you're following. When I was in a cast I found a video of a guy doing
> a one-legged clean and press with a kettlebell. I watched it once and
> decided not to try that one. I'm trying to imagine what the coach
> might have been thinking, and not getting anywhere.

Well, the main type of injury for a football player are sprained ankles.
The idea here would be to train on one leg and stimulate this way a more
balanced development of supporting musculature. It's not like I think
it doesn't work. I used to do a fair amount of step-ups when I was
recovering from a sprained ankle myself. Overhead squats are generally
a good thing to train too. Just combining the two is stupid.

> By the way, the word you want there is sheer, not shear. Cliffs are
> sheer, sheep are sheared.

And sheep are stupid, aren't they? ... No, I'm not gonna save it this way.
(Thanks.)

--
Andrzej Rosa
 >> Stay informed about: weight lifting soreness not healing?