question about training with a rower

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> And the point, jethro?

Jus' sayin'. Folks oughta be keen t' y'all not dealin' fum a full deck.
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Ahm no 'spert, but:

I've not been impressed by rowing machines. They are quite an oars-length
away from real rowing.

Rowing machines facilitate half-assed legpress/kneebends and half-assed
pull-ins (opp. to a bench press).

Why not just do the real things, weight-wise?
And note it would be the bench press, and not the pull-in, that would be
more relevant to cycling.

As to how much all this will help depends where you are on the
"aerobic/anaerobic continuum".
If you're cycling for shorter speed sprints, weight training will help,
probably a lot.
If you are doing the masochistic endurance thing, weights won't help as
much, and might even be counterproductive.

imo, the best rower is this scandinavian wood deal, that uses a lucite
barrel full of water as the resistance.
The really neat thing is, you can put your clothes in there, for a good
rowing-powered machine wash.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
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The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

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all d'numbuhs

"Wim van Gijsel" <wimvangijsel RemoveThis @tiscali.nl> wrote in message
news:4575ef54$0$726$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
>I have the intention to buy a rower, possibly the Tunturi R60.
> The aim is training more than only them legs. For a number of years I have
> a
> biketrainer, but you only move the legs on that.
>
> My questions are :
> 1 - is a rower for a biker (race and atb) a good means to train the legs
> as well as the spine and arms ?
> 2 - can you tell me your experiences ?
> 3 - has anyone experiences with the Tunturi R60 ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Wim
>
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 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:11:08 -0000, "Bully" <bully1 RemoveThis @proteinbars.co.ok>
wrote:

>Wim van Gijsel wrote:
>> I have the intention to buy a rower, possibly the Tunturi R60.
>> The aim is training more than only them legs. For a number of years I
>> have a biketrainer, but you only move the legs on that.
>>
>> My questions are :
>> 1 - is a rower for a biker (race and atb) a good means to train the
>> legs
>
>Yes, for endurance.
>
>> as well as the spine and arms ?
>
>No, rowing uses legs as the prime movers.

That has to be correct in the strict application of the exercise.

>The upper body really just follows
>through on the momentum created by the leg drive.

However, the gym rowing machines can be used very much as you want to
use them. It is quite possible and practical to not rely entirely upon
the legs, and in fact it is a variation for the legs to 'trail' while
using the arms and upper body to provide the 'propulsion'!

[Attention to proper form is essential for those with suspect backs!]

I use the Concept machine as part of my CV programme and very often
ease off on the leg contribution, if I have had a particularly heavy
leg weight session the previous day. Also, it is sometimes difficult
to find CV routines that incorporate the upper body, so the rowing
machine is ideal for this purpose.

The rower is a very adaptable machine.

This is a rare *alleged* "on-topic" contribution from the Officer
Commanding miscellaneous input! ;o)
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Wim van Gijsel wrote:
> I have the intention to buy a rower, possibly the Tunturi R60.
> The aim is training more than only them legs. For a number of years I
> have a biketrainer, but you only move the legs on that.
>
> My questions are :
> 1 - is a rower for a biker (race and atb) a good means to train the
> legs

Yes, for endurance.

> as well as the spine and arms ?

No, rowing uses legs as the prime movers. The upper body really just follows
through on the momentum created by the leg drive.

> 2 - can you tell me your experiences ?
> 3 - has anyone experiences with the Tunturi R60 ?

No.

>
> Thanks in advance,
> Wim
>


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> Ahm no 'spert, but:
>
> I've not been impressed by rowing machines. They are quite an
> oars-length away from real rowing.

Yeah but a little more practical eh? James Cracknell said it's about 80% of
the real thing. Wanna argue w/him?

[...]


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than crunches...
Did you finish my post, before you started S'gYOD?
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Bully" <bully1.TakeThisOut@proteinbars.co.ok> wrote in message
news:4tn93fF14pgj3U1@mid.individual.net...
> Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>> Ahm no 'spert, but:
>>
>> I've not been impressed by rowing machines. They are quite an
>> oars-length away from real rowing.
>
> Yeah but a little more practical eh? James Cracknell said it's about 80%
> of the real thing. Wanna argue w/him?
>
> [...]
>
>
> --
> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than crunches...
> Did you finish my post, before you started S'gYOD?
>
> "Bully" <bully1 RemoveThis @proteinbars.co.ok> wrote in message
> news:4tn93fF14pgj3U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>>> Ahm no 'spert, but:
>>>
>>> I've not been impressed by rowing machines. They are quite an
>>> oars-length away from real rowing.
>>
>> Yeah but a little more practical eh? James Cracknell said it's about
>> 80% of the real thing. Wanna argue w/him?
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bully
>> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>>
>> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
>> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Did you Google for James Cracknell?


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

"Tom Anderson" <twic.RemoveThis@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0612061452080.26615@urchin.earth.li...
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>
>> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
>> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than
>> crunches...
>
> And how many Olympic golds do those guys have between them, then?
>
> And is there really a misc.fitness.misc?

Yes. Also misc.fitness.aerobics, also alt.sport.weightlifting, and a
few others as well.

> As to backs and rowing - have you ever seen a rower's back? They are
> not
> slender chaps.

I have heard rowing likened to kettlebell's girevoy sport, an exercise
in strength/endurance. One could certainly do a lot worse than rowing.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> tom
>
> --
> Virtually everything you touch has been mined. -- Prof Keith Atkinson
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:26:30 +0000, Tom Anderson <twic RemoveThis @urchin.earth.li>
wrote:

>On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Bully wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>>>
>>>> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
>>>> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than
>>>> crunches...
>>>
>>> And how many Olympic golds do those guys have between them, then?
>>>
>>> And is there really a misc.fitness.misc?
>>>
>>> As to backs and rowing - have you ever seen a rower's back? They are
>>> not slender chaps.
>>
>> Isn't that because blokes with weedy backs don't take up rowing?
>
>A couple of mates of mine from school took up rowing at uni, neither of
>them big or broad, and didn't get far beyond the tenth eight or whatever.
>It may be that the broad-backed become top rowers, rather than top rowers
>becoming broad-backed, but either way, that means the back is important in
>rowing, i think.
>
>I'm not saying it's the main muscle group - clearly, the quads and glutes
>are - but it is involved to some degree. After all, someone who puts power
>into the top of the stroke, after the legs are extended, is putting more
>total power into his stroke than someone who isn't, so he'll go faster,
>and a bigger back means more power to give.
>
>The alternative explanation, of course, is that rowers are like surfers,
>and spend all their non-rowing time in the gym doing pulldowns, so that
>they can impress the chicks with their studliness after they're done on
>the water.
>

I said earlier in response to Bully's (before he changed the subject
line) assertion that rowing is all legs, and the upper body is just
along for the ride.

**
>No, rowing uses legs as the prime movers.

That has to be correct in the strict application of the exercise.

>The upper body really just follows
>through on the momentum created by the leg drive.

However, the gym rowing machines can be used very much as you want to
use them. It is quite possible and practical to not rely entirely upon
the legs, and in fact it is a variation for the legs to 'trail' while
using the arms and upper body to provide the 'propulsion'!

[Attention to proper form is essential for those with suspect backs!]

I use the Concept machine as part of my CV programme and very often
ease off on the leg contribution, if I have had a particularly heavy
leg weight session the previous day. Also, it is sometimes difficult
to find CV routines that incorporate the upper body, so the rowing
machine is ideal for this purpose.

The rower is a very adaptable machine.

This is a rare *alleged* "on-topic" contribution from the Officer
Commanding miscellaneous input! ;o)

**
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

"Tom Anderson" <twic.TakeThisOut@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0612061452080.26615@urchin.earth.li...
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>
>> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
>> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than crunches...
>
> And how many Olympic golds do those guys have between them, then?
>
> And is there really a misc.fitness.misc?
>
> As to backs and rowing - have you ever seen a rower's back? They are not

Problem is not rowing. It's rowing machines.
Rowing proper is probably one of the best single activities in existence,
development/health-wise.

Doesn't mean Cracknell is right, either. Might be he is talking about real
rowing similators, not the stuff pawned off on the American Pubic.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs



> slender chaps.
>
> tom
>
> --
> Virtually everything you touch has been mined. -- Prof Keith Atkinson
>
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>
>> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
>> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than
>> crunches...
>
> And how many Olympic golds do those guys have between them, then?
>
> And is there really a misc.fitness.misc?
>
> As to backs and rowing - have you ever seen a rower's back? They are
> not slender chaps.

Isn't that because blokes with weedy backs don't take up rowing? Well, apart
from the lightweights?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Tom Anderson wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Bully wrote:
>
>> Tom Anderson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>>>
>>>> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
>>>> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than
>>>> crunches...
>>>
>>> And how many Olympic golds do those guys have between them, then?
>>>
>>> And is there really a misc.fitness.misc?
>>>
>>> As to backs and rowing - have you ever seen a rower's back? They are
>>> not slender chaps.
>>
>> Isn't that because blokes with weedy backs don't take up rowing?
>
> A couple of mates of mine from school took up rowing at uni, neither
> of them big or broad, and didn't get far beyond the tenth eight or
> whatever. It may be that the broad-backed become top rowers, rather
> than top rowers becoming broad-backed, but either way, that means the
> back is important in rowing, i think.

Well, no. I reckon it goes something like this: blokes with long levers and
big powerful legs are the best rowers. However, blokes with big powerful
legs tend to have big backs too. Further, these blokes tend to do a lot of
heavy bench pulls to further build their back.

>
> I'm not saying it's the main muscle group - clearly, the quads and
> glutes are

70-80% in fact.

> - but it is involved to some degree. After all, someone
> who puts power into the top of the stroke, after the legs are
> extended, is putting more total power into his stroke than someone
> who isn't, so he'll go faster, and a bigger back means more power to
> give.
>
> The alternative explanation, of course, is that rowers are like
> surfers, and spend all their non-rowing time in the gym doing
> pulldowns, so that they can impress the chicks with their studliness
> after they're done on the water.
>
> tom



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower 

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> "Tom Anderson" <twic.TakeThisOut@urchin.earth.li> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.62.0612061452080.26615@urchin.earth.li...
>> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
>>
>>> And Ellington Darden thinks the BowFlex is better than weights.
>>> And some PhD ex physio thinks the Ab Lounge is better than
>>> crunches...
>>
>> And how many Olympic golds do those guys have between them, then?
>>
>> And is there really a misc.fitness.misc?
>>
>> As to backs and rowing - have you ever seen a rower's back? They are
>> not
>
> Problem is not rowing. It's rowing machines.
> Rowing proper is probably one of the best single activities in
> existence, development/health-wise.

Despite what most people "think" it's very good for rehabbing bad backs of
one variety or another.

>
> Doesn't mean Cracknell is right, either. Might be he is talking
> about real rowing similators, not the stuff pawned off on the
> American Pubic.

Cracknell was talking specifically about the Concept2; the interview took
place at the British Indoor Rower Championship 2002. Actually, he prolly
sponsored by them, BUT the British rowers HAVE always used the C2.

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: question about training with a rower