Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

On Dec 6, 8:35 am, Andrzej Rosa <bakt... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]

> Stupid ballet dancers. They waste all this time doing something which
> obviously doesn't work. I wonder what professional contortionists
> do? They surely must do a lot of active reactive ROM neural software
> repatterning to do this.http://www.broughtonapartments.co.uk/basementpictures/slides/contortionist.jpg

http://www.broughtonapartments.co.uk/basement%20pictures/slides/contor...nist.jp
aka
http://tinyurl.com/34oow6

> I bet that this girl must also have some superhuman strength to be able
> to relax so much.

a) That's not a girl! It's a statue.
b) Suicide. (She didn't like the music.)
c) Ow.
d) She does appear to be napping, doesn't she?

--
Curt
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

"Hobbes" <khobman800.TakeThisOut@yahoo.ca> schreef:

> OTOH - Pete is simply wrong.

Keith, hoolding a 5 footer with one hand means that the bar is not stable.

It needs to be balanced, and the stress of that will go to the wrist.

> There is no way you screw up your wrists
> with a 5 foot bar if you progressively build up the weight. The great
> Alexeiev still holds the record in the one-handed barbell snatch - 275
> lbs.

Alexeiev was a rare specimen, with wrists thicker than most guys annkles.

> These lifts can be performed safely - it is simply a matter of
> training. Specific adaptation roolz!

True.

But i really fail to see the point of pressing a barbell with one hand. Long
DBs, like 2 feet, okay. But 5 ofeet or more is pointless.


The pressing itself is sitll done by the same muscles as a DB, but due to
the inherent instabilty, the wrist gets a pounding.

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

In article <4777882c$0$3865$dbd43001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Uncle Bob" <unclebobrules RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

> "Hobbes" <khobman800 RemoveThis @yahoo.ca> schreef:
>
> > OTOH - Pete is simply wrong.
>
> Keith, hoolding a 5 footer with one hand means that the bar is not stable.
>
> It needs to be balanced, and the stress of that will go to the wrist.
>
> > There is no way you screw up your wrists
> > with a 5 foot bar if you progressively build up the weight. The great
> > Alexeiev still holds the record in the one-handed barbell snatch - 275
> > lbs.
>
> Alexeiev was a rare specimen, with wrists thicker than most guys annkles.
>
> > These lifts can be performed safely - it is simply a matter of
> > training. Specific adaptation roolz!
>
> True.
>
> But i really fail to see the point of pressing a barbell with one hand. Long
> DBs, like 2 feet, okay. But 5 ofeet or more is pointless.
>
>
> The pressing itself is sitll done by the same muscles as a DB, but due to
> the inherent instabilty, the wrist gets a pounding.
>
> --
> Pete

The idea being that if the bar isn't balanced, you bail. Before any
damage to the wrist. But I do agree that if a shorter bar is available
you should use it unless there is a pervasive reason not to.

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

Dnia 2007-12-29 Hobbes napisa³(a):
>
> When old-time strongman did their lifts they had limited access to
> resistance equipment and there wasn't a lot of dumbbells available or
> plateloaded equipment. So they made do with fixed weights and often had
> to use fixed weight bars for heavier resistance equipment. So for the
> bent presses and Saxon presses they used barbells. It was all they had
> heavy enough to challenge them.

While I agree with you, I don't think that today they could easily
find dumbbells which would challenge them. They used to bent-press
up to above 150 kg. I'm talking about confirmed lifts here.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

Dnia 2007-12-30 Uncle Bob napisa³(a):
> "Hobbes" <khobman800 RemoveThis @yahoo.ca> schreef:
>
>> OTOH - Pete is simply wrong.
>
> Keith, hoolding a 5 footer with one hand means that the bar is not stable.
>
> It needs to be balanced, and the stress of that will go to the wrist.

No, it won't. It will go to the shoulder. Try it sometime.

>> There is no way you screw up your wrists
>> with a 5 foot bar if you progressively build up the weight. The great
>> Alexeiev still holds the record in the one-handed barbell snatch - 275
>> lbs.
>
> Alexeiev was a rare specimen, with wrists thicker than most guys annkles.

I've wrists thinner than Alexeiev pinkies, and I can balance a barbell
overhead with no problem. Actually a barbell is a bit easier than a
dumbbell. It has more rotational inertia so it sorta gives you a time
to react and counter its movement. When I switch from a bar to a
dumbbell it is all over the place at the beginning, because I tend to
react both too late and too strong. But it's not the writs which balances
a dumbbell or a bar. Shoulders do the work.

>> These lifts can be performed safely - it is simply a matter of
>> training. Specific adaptation roolz!
>
> True.
>
> But i really fail to see the point of pressing a barbell with one hand. Long
> DBs, like 2 feet, okay. But 5 ofeet or more is pointless.

Bar is better. For once, you can get it in position by standing it on
one end and pivoting it on a fulcrum which consist of your elbow pressed
hard against your hip. That's why Artur Saxon advocated a barbell press
above a dumbbell press. Beside that, you can keep a bar closer to your
body than a dumbbell. Heavy dumbbells tend to be bulky, which makes for
a slightly different lift and at the same time limits the weight you can
lift a little.

Anyway, there is no extra danger coming from lifting a barbell as
compared with lifting a dumbbell. You can damage your wrist if they
hyperextend, but both implements are equal in this regard.

> The pressing itself is sitll done by the same muscles as a DB, but due to
> the inherent instabilty, the wrist gets a pounding.

It doesn't. Try it.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

"Uncle Bob" <unclebobrules.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4777882c$0$3865$dbd43001@news.wanadoo.nl...
> "Hobbes" <khobman800.RemoveThis@yahoo.ca> schreef:
>
>> OTOH - Pete is simply wrong.
>
> Keith, hoolding a 5 footer with one hand means that the bar is not stable.
>
> It needs to be balanced, and the stress of that will go to the wrist.
>
>> There is no way you screw up your wrists
>> with a 5 foot bar if you progressively build up the weight. The great
>> Alexeiev still holds the record in the one-handed barbell snatch - 275
>> lbs.
>
> Alexeiev was a rare specimen, with wrists thicker than most guys annkles.
>
>> These lifts can be performed safely - it is simply a matter of
>> training. Specific adaptation roolz!
>
> True.
>
> But i really fail to see the point of pressing a barbell with one hand.
> Long DBs, like 2 feet, okay. But 5 ofeet or more is pointless.
>
>
> The pressing itself is sitll done by the same muscles as a DB, but due to
> the inherent instabilty, the wrist gets a pounding.
>

Exactly right Pete - (you are just about the smartest Dutchman who posts in
this group)

> --
> Pete
>
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

Dnia 2007-12-30 David napisa³(a):
>
> Exactly right Pete - (you are just about the smartest Dutchman who posts in
> this group)
>
>> --
>> Pete

I think that he makes way too little spelling mistakes for The Dutchman
Pete.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> schreef:

>> After more than 2 decades of training experience, i can speak
>> intelligently
>> about these things.

> Give us a sample.

Google my name in this NG.

;-O

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

"DZ" <24192 DeleteThis @119630675.820129674.29202.6212.14141> schreef:

>> Agreed - plenty of people do one-armed presses, especially bent
>> presses, with a standard 7' Olympic bar.

> I don't know what's the deal with those bar presses (Pete - enlighten
> me!)

I wish i could.

It is beyond my comprehesion why anyone wouldd press a 5 or 7 footer, while
there are 1 1/2- 2 footers availeble.

If the answer is;

"for increased balance" than i sure as hell would like to know which joint
does the balancing.

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> schreef:

>> It needs to be balanced, and the stress of that will go to the wrist.

> No, it won't. It will go to the shoulder. Try it sometime.

As a teenager, i didnt have any money to go to a gym, so i tried all kind of
movements with free weights at home.

Did them all.

>> Alexeiev was a rare specimen, with wrists thicker than most guys annkles.

> I've wrists thinner than Alexeiev pinkies, and I can balance a barbell
> overhead with no problem. Actually a barbell is a bit easier than a
> dumbbell. It has more rotational inertia so it sorta gives you a time
> to react and counter its movement.

This is just wrong, even from a physics point of view.

A DB with a total weight of 40 pounds is easier to balance than a 7 feet bar
that weighs 40 pounds.

> When I switch from a bar to a
> dumbbell it is all over the place at the beginning, because I tend to
> react both too late and too strong. But it's not the writs which balances
> a dumbbell or a bar. Shoulders do the work.

The shoulders are attached to the humerus, not the hands. When the bar
wobbles, the hands move wrt the lower arm, which means there is movement at
the wrist joint.

>> But i really fail to see the point of pressing a barbell with one hand.
>> Long
>> DBs, like 2 feet, okay. But 5 ofeet or more is pointless.

> Bar is better.

Why?

>For once, you can get it in position by standing it on
> one end and pivoting it on a fulcrum which consist of your elbow pressed
> hard against your hip.

?!?!?!

> That's why Artur Saxon advocated a barbell press
> above a dumbbell press.


Arthur is wrong.

>Beside that, you can keep a bar closer to your
> body than a dumbbell. Heavy dumbbells tend to be bulky, which makes for
> a slightly different lift and at the same time limits the weight you can
> lift a little.

That problem can be circumvented with 1 1/2 2 footers, and lots of small
plates.

I did DB for years with that. i had 1 1/2 footer, with 5 plats of 5 on each
side. Easier than a 1 footer with plates of 10.
Like you said, too bulky.

But going beyond 2 feet is nonsense. Its counterproductive, as both centres
of gravity move away from the centre, which is the actual centre of gravity.

Imagine what would happen, virtually, if an olympic lifter had to lift 400
pounds with a 20 feet barbell.

> Anyway, there is no extra danger coming from lifting a barbell as
> compared with lifting a dumbbell. You can damage your wrist if they
> hyperextend, but both implements are equal in this regard.

I was reffering to the lateral movement of the hand.

>> The pressing itself is sitll done by the same muscles as a DB, but due to
>> the inherent instabilty, the wrist gets a pounding.

> It doesn't. Try it.

Did that 30 years ago. Just like flies and pullovers while lying on thee
floor. Did almost every movement i could come up with.

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

Dnia 2007-12-31 Uncle Bob napisa³(a):
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters DeleteThis @yahoo.com> schreef:
[...]
>>> Alexeiev was a rare specimen, with wrists thicker than most guys annkles.
>
>> I've wrists thinner than Alexeiev pinkies, and I can balance a barbell
>> overhead with no problem. Actually a barbell is a bit easier than a
>> dumbbell. It has more rotational inertia so it sorta gives you a time
>> to react and counter its movement.
>
> This is just wrong, even from a physics point of view.

No, it isn't. It's harder to unbalance a system which has more inertia
than the one with less of it.

Anyway, do you think that this guy carries a long bar just to make his
life more difficult?

http://allaboutalpha.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/Tight Rope.jpg

> A DB with a total weight of 40 pounds is easier to balance than a 7 feet bar
> that weighs 40 pounds.

Both weight the same, so they will put the same torque at the fulcrum of
your shoulder.

>> When I switch from a bar to a
>> dumbbell it is all over the place at the beginning, because I tend to
>> react both too late and too strong. But it's not the writs which balances
>> a dumbbell or a bar. Shoulders do the work.
>
> The shoulders are attached to the humerus, not the hands. When the bar
> wobbles, the hands move wrt the lower arm, which means there is movement at
> the wrist joint.

There is none of it. You grip the bar in the middle and the bar has too
much inertia to actually wobble at the fulcrum of your grip point.
Dumbbells on the other hand do tend to wobble if you don't grip them
tight. They can, because they have less rotational inertia (I mean an
equivalent of mass in rotational motion traditionally denoted as "I",
however it translates to English).

IOW it takes less force to unbalance a dumbbell than a long bar of the
same weight. Better yet, it takes less torque to turn a dumbbell and a
barbell of the same weight. Torque is an equivalent of force in
rotational motion.

>>For once, you can get it in position by standing it on
>> one end and pivoting it on a fulcrum which consist of your elbow pressed
>> hard against your hip.
>
> ?!?!?!

http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Saxon/Weightlifting/scans/wl-41.jpg

>> That's why Artur Saxon advocated a barbell press
>> above a dumbbell press.
>
>
> Arthur is wrong.

Was. He still holds world record in one-armed press, despite weighting
below 200 lbs and being dead for I think nine decades. BTW - he's the
guy in the above picture.

>> Beside that, you can keep a bar closer to your
>> body than a dumbbell. Heavy dumbbells tend to be bulky, which makes for
>> a slightly different lift and at the same time limits the weight you can
>> lift a little.
>
> That problem can be circumvented with 1 1/2 2 footers, and lots of small
> plates.

Sure, but why?

> I did DB for years with that. i had 1 1/2 footer, with 5 plats of 5 on each
> side. Easier than a 1 footer with plates of 10.
> Like you said, too bulky.
>
> But going beyond 2 feet is nonsense.

http://www.sandowplus.co.uk/Competition/Saxon/Weightlifting/scans/wl-47.jpg

I like such a nonsense. BTW - these are solid iron plates, and he posed
for picture for quite a moment it took to get it in 1905.

> Its counterproductive, as both centres
> of gravity move away from the centre, which is the actual centre of gravity.
>
> Imagine what would happen, virtually, if an olympic lifter had to lift 400
> pounds with a 20 feet barbell.

It would be easier than with present one (if the grip rolled, of
course). It's not like your understanding of physics is exactly
splendid, is it?

>> Anyway, there is no extra danger coming from lifting a barbell as
>> compared with lifting a dumbbell. You can damage your wrist if they
>> hyperextend, but both implements are equal in this regard.
>
> I was reffering to the lateral movement of the hand.

You balance a barbell with your shoulders, not your wrists.

>>> The pressing itself is sitll done by the same muscles as a DB, but due to
>>> the inherent instabilty, the wrist gets a pounding.
>
>> It doesn't. Try it.
>
> Did that 30 years ago. Just like flies and pullovers while lying on thee
> floor. Did almost every movement i could come up with.

It was long time ago, it seems.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

Dnia 2007-12-31 Uncle Bob napisa³(a):
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
>>> After more than 2 decades of training experience, i can speak
>>> intelligently
>>> about these things.
>
>> Give us a sample.
>
> Google my name in this NG.
>
> ;-O
>
> --
> Pete

You mean that Pete-3.0 is out?

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats? 

In article <47748423$0$60803$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
Uncle Bob <unclebobrules.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Seth" <sethb.TakeThisOut@panix.com> schreef:

Actually, I didn't. Some people can't count.

>>>For such people, I recommend a standing, one-armed overhead press with a
>>>solid pause at the top. A kettlebell works somewhat better than a
>>>dumbbell for this because the weight's center of mass is lower...
>
>You just provided us with evidence that exercises such as these should be
>performed with the low pully.
>
>Lowest centre of mass of all.

Seth
--
I can't tell you how irritating it is to hear a yankee say "y'all" to a single
person. I've had to kill several of them because of that. -- Watson Davis
 >> Stay informed about: Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?