Anyone here use a rowing machine at home?

Peter Kaye624 wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:28:45 +0100, "Peter Allen"
> <peteronusenet DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You do want to learn good technique if you're going to use a rowing
>> machine a lot - keep your back in a strong position and you'll be
>> fine; start slumping or pushing with the legs without holding it in
>> the glutes and core (bum-shoving) and you'll find yourself with a
>> hurt back, just like if you tried to do 1000-rep deadlifts that way.
>>
>> Peter
>
> Peter,
> Can you explain the above in more detail. I have a Concept 2 but
> mainly it is gathering dust in the basement just because it does end
> up killing my back. 1000-rep deadlifts is right!
>
> Sorry if this pulls the thread off topic.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Peter K.

Try looking at the technique guide on www.concept2.co.uk, broadly, the
stroke is as follows:

sit with your legs fully extended, sitting up, holding the handle to the
bottom of your rib cage. This is called the finish position.
extend your arms fully out
lean forwards from the pelvis, i.e. not allowing the back to round
keep your back angle as it is and arms straight, break the knees and come up
the slide as far as you comfortably can. This is called the catch position,
you've just done the 'recovery'.
push the legs flat, keeping the back angle the same all the way
lean back till you're up straight again
pull the hands back to the bottom of the rib cage, back to the finish
position, you've just done the 'drive'.
repeat

When you're actually rowing you'll tend to smooth this all out a bit - so
the arms will just be finishing extension as the upper body begins to come
forwards, and the knees will probably break before the upper body is fully
rocked over, and the same will happen on the drive a bit. However, you
really do want to make sure that you get to the finish position every
stroke - you absolutely do not want to be pulling your arms in and moving up
the slide at the same time, although a lot of gym users do just that.

Points to note:

If your hamstrings aren't very flexible you will not be able to rock over
very far; you may even have difficulty sitting up straight. Go as far as
your hamstrings let you, even if you aren't rocking far. Stretch every day
and your hamstrings will become more flexible.

If you start pushing with your legs and do not brace your back (you know how
to do this from deadlifting - get tight, make sure your shoulders go back at
least as far as your hips) then you will be putting a lot of strain on your
back.

If you have the drag factor up above 5, then put it down. 10 is not for
'hard guys', or a sign of manliness, it is a sign of someone who will hurt
their back. It exists so that people can do certain strength drills and so
that the erg can work normally even if the air intakes get partially blocked
with dust. Most serious rowers use 3-5, if your back isn't feeling good then
you probably shouldn't go above 4 until you get the technique down. Even
then you only want to put the drag factor up if you have some good reason
(like you want to do a special drill). Higher drag factor doesn't make the
work harder, a 6 minute 2k takes exactly the same amount of work on drag
factor 10 as factor 1. It just changes the way the erg feels (it's a bit
easier to do work with higher drag factors, you need to be sharp and
accurate to get good scores on drag 1, but it puts a lot more load on your
back at the higher drag factors).

You probably don't want to do marathon erg sessions, especially when you're
trying to learn technique; you'll start slumping as you get tired and that
will hurt your back. Do 15 minutes, get off, have a drink, stretch a bit,
get back on.

Rating (strokes per minute) is not how you measure your speed. Aim to get
the split down (the bit saying 2:00 /500m, or 1:50, or whatever) at whatever
rating feels comfortable.

You don't really want to have your arms bent while you're pushing with your
legs; it'll feel like you're working harder if you do, but that's because
you're having to work to keep your arms bent against the force your legs
produce, the work gets wasted (and tends to make you grip the handle tightly
which will get painful).

How far you lean back at the finish is up to you. You don't want to have
your shoulders in front of your hips, you don't want to end up lying down on
the erg, but you may find that leaning back 10 or 15 degrees works for you.

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Peter Allen wrote:>
> I'd observe that the waterrower certainly used to and AFAIK still does have
> an issue with the monitor giving you a score simply depending on slide
> length and rate of striking - which isn't well related to the actual work
> you're doing; pull harder and maintain the same rate and you will be working
> harder (and on the water you'd go faster) but the display won't show it.
> This can be fixed by getting a computer connection and using a bit of
> software called rowh2o.

I've noticed on the web site that they are charging around $200 to add
the monitor to the basic waterrower. I really don't care about all
that statistical stuff and since the thing costs $900 minimum I would
be willing to just set a kitchen timer so I can do the amount of
minutes I want. Or is this silliness on my part?
>
> You do want to learn good technique if you're going to use a rowing machine
> a lot - keep your back in a strong position and you'll be fine; start
> slumping or pushing with the legs without holding it in the glutes and core
> (bum-shoving) and you'll find yourself with a hurt back, just like if you
> tried to do 1000-rep deadlifts that way.

Two days of rowing pretty intensely (on a concept 2 at level 8 for 15
and 20 minutes respectively) and I can tell you a few things - I have a
giant blister underneath every weight-lifting callous on my palms
(that's 6 blisters), my back overall feels sore in a very delicious
way, I think I feel something going on in my glutes and legs (but I
can't tell if that's from some SLDLs I did two days previously after
not having done them in months). The motion of rowing feels great to
me since I have always been strong in the legs and back, and I
definitely worked up a sweat. I'll cross-train with some elliptical
and treadmill work and see how it goes before making a giant $$$
decision like buying one for my house.

Thanks for the info.

Deb
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Peter Allen wrote:>
> If you have the drag factor up above 5, then put it down. 10 is not for
> 'hard guys', or a sign of manliness, it is a sign of someone who will hurt
> their back. It exists so that people can do certain strength drills and so
> that the erg can work normally even if the air intakes get partially blocked
> with dust. Most serious rowers use 3-5, if your back isn't feeling good then
> you probably shouldn't go above 4 until you get the technique down. Even
> then you only want to put the drag factor up if you have some good reason
> (like you want to do a special drill). Higher drag factor doesn't make the
> work harder, a 6 minute 2k takes exactly the same amount of work on drag
> factor 10 as factor 1. It just changes the way the erg feels (it's a bit
> easier to do work with higher drag factors, you need to be sharp and
> accurate to get good scores on drag 1, but it puts a lot more load on your
> back at the higher drag factors).

Thanks for this very important info, as you can see in my previous
post, I had the drag factor up at 8. Will lower it next time. Need to
take off a day from this type of cardio in order to get the blisters to
go down (don't be alarmed about the blisters, it doesn't mean I went
completely overboard on the rowing; I always get blisters under my
callouses on back day or "pull" days at the gym - I think my hands just
aren't very hardy).
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Dally wrote:>
> How about using a pair of padded biking gloves or weightlifting gloves?

I'm generally against gloves but in this case it may be worth it to
break out an old pair of "Glovz" that I had from my early weight
lifting days - they are really nothing more than a strip of neoprene
across each palm. May not work since the callouses and blisters on
"pull" days tend to come just from pressure, not from friction.
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

[x-no-archive:yes]
Deb wrote:
>
> I've noticed on the web site that they are charging around $200 to add
> the monitor to the basic waterrower. I really don't care about all
> that statistical stuff and since the thing costs $900 minimum I would
> be willing to just set a kitchen timer so I can do the amount of
> minutes I want. Or is this silliness on my part?

I like a monitor because I don't want all of my workouts to be the same:
some days are light days, some days are intense days. A heart rate
monitor would give you that sort of feedback, though, and be useful in
other sports. A Polar S120 is about $80.

> Two days of rowing pretty intensely (on a concept 2 at level 8 for 15
> and 20 minutes respectively) and I can tell you a few things - I have a
> giant blister underneath every weight-lifting callous on my palms
> (that's 6 blisters), my back overall feels sore in a very delicious
> way, I think I feel something going on in my glutes and legs (but I
> can't tell if that's from some SLDLs I did two days previously after
> not having done them in months). The motion of rowing feels great to
> me since I have always been strong in the legs and back, and I
> definitely worked up a sweat. I'll cross-train with some elliptical
> and treadmill work and see how it goes before making a giant $$$
> decision like buying one for my house.

How about using a pair of padded biking gloves or weightlifting gloves?

Dally
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Lee Michaels wrote:> >
> Can't you soak and sand off the callouses with a stone?
>
> Or at least thin them a bit?

The callouses aren't the issue. As a matter of fact, I need the
callouses for protection. Taking them off would just lead to further
irritation. The painful problem is the fluid-filled blisters that form
deep *under* the callouses. They hurt for about a day. Luckily, the
fluid seems to have re-absorbed very quickly. I woke up with them
still there but now, halfway through the day, those white spots are
gone and I am left with plain old callouses again. My callouses aren't
ugly or disfiguring since they are very very tiny (but hard). No one
knows they are there except me.
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

"Deb" <MagicTentacle.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote
>
> Dally wrote:>
>> How about using a pair of padded biking gloves or weightlifting gloves?
>
> I'm generally against gloves but in this case it may be worth it to
> break out an old pair of "Glovz" that I had from my early weight
> lifting days - they are really nothing more than a strip of neoprene
> across each palm. May not work since the callouses and blisters on
> "pull" days tend to come just from pressure, not from friction.
>
Can't you soak and sand off the callouses with a stone?

Or at least thin them a bit?
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Dally <Dally DeleteThis @myself.com> wrote in news:3jptd9Fqji2qU1@individual.net:

>> I've noticed on the web site that they are charging around $200 to add
>> the monitor to the basic waterrower. I really don't care about all
>> that statistical stuff and since the thing costs $900 minimum I would
>> be willing to just set a kitchen timer so I can do the amount of
>> minutes I want. Or is this silliness on my part?
>
> I like a monitor because I don't want all of my workouts to be the same:
> some days are light days, some days are intense days. A heart rate
> monitor would give you that sort of feedback, though, and be useful in
> other sports. A Polar S120 is about $80.
>

The waterrower does have a timer, stroke rate meter, distance, and speed
displays. So you can use it for most drills and for things like pyramids or
intervals. (At least my 15-year-old model does.) I think Peter's just saying
that the speed meter has a technical flaw which makes it not completely
accurate.

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Deb wrote:
> Peter Allen wrote:>
>> If you have the drag factor up above 5, then put it down. 10 is not
>> for 'hard guys', or a sign of manliness, it is a sign of someone who
>> will hurt their back. It exists so that people can do certain
>> strength drills and so that the erg can work normally even if the
>> air intakes get partially blocked with dust. Most serious rowers use
>> 3-5, if your back isn't feeling good then you probably shouldn't go
>> above 4 until you get the technique down. Even then you only want to
>> put the drag factor up if you have some good reason (like you want
>> to do a special drill). Higher drag factor doesn't make the work
>> harder, a 6 minute 2k takes exactly the same amount of work on drag
>> factor 10 as factor 1. It just changes the way the erg feels (it's a
>> bit easier to do work with higher drag factors, you need to be sharp
>> and accurate to get good scores on drag 1, but it puts a lot more
>> load on your back at the higher drag factors).
>
> Thanks for this very important info, as you can see in my previous
> post, I had the drag factor up at 8. Will lower it next time. Need
> to take off a day from this type of cardio in order to get the
> blisters to go down (don't be alarmed about the blisters, it doesn't
> mean I went completely overboard on the rowing; I always get blisters
> under my callouses on back day or "pull" days at the gym - I think my
> hands just aren't very hardy).

Blisters are normal; you'll get callouses fairly quickly which will stop
more problems with the erg. Real rowers tend to get blisters fairly
regularly; you're getting wet and having to turn the oar in your hands every
stroke as well as pull. Best thing to do with blisters is first try to just
cope - grip less hard is always good, if you can row with it it'll disappear
eventually. Failing that, pierce it with a pin, get all the fluid out, put
antiseptic cream on and zinc oxide tap (or a plaster, or whatever) over the
top while you row for a couple of days and it'll heal. Try very hard to
avoid getting a blister dirty, then it'll go septic and you'll have to put
lots of holes in it and stick it in surgical spirit for a while, which is
not fun.

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Deb wrote:
> Peter Allen wrote:>
>> I'd observe that the waterrower certainly used to and AFAIK still
>> does have an issue with the monitor giving you a score simply
>> depending on slide length and rate of striking - which isn't well
>> related to the actual work you're doing; pull harder and maintain
>> the same rate and you will be working harder (and on the water you'd
>> go faster) but the display won't show it. This can be fixed by
>> getting a computer connection and using a bit of software called
>> rowh2o.
>
> I've noticed on the web site that they are charging around $200 to add
> the monitor to the basic waterrower. I really don't care about all
> that statistical stuff and since the thing costs $900 minimum I would
> be willing to just set a kitchen timer so I can do the amount of
> minutes I want. Or is this silliness on my part?

Only thing is that 20 minutes pulling hard is very different to 20 minutes
light pressure; a heart rate monitor will give you some idea of how hard
you're working, or you can just go by feel, but if you want to know whether
you're improving or not you'll need a monitor. I suppose you could do the
occasional bit of work on a gym erg with a monitor to test, though.

You don't want to wear gloves or anything like that, they'll get soaked and
you'll get much worse blisters. You probably won't have anything worse than
what you described later in this thread, and it'll be better fairly soon as
you get used to the machine.

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

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 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home? 

Thanks for all that blister advice, Peter. I already have some pretty
major callouses, so the blisters were pretty deep underneath. I waited
for all the fluid to reabsorb and the next rowing session, I
experimented with pulling with an open hand instead of gripping the
bar. Surprise! No more blisters.
 >> Stay informed about: Anyone here use a rowing machine at home?