Welcome to TheFitnessForum.net!
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log in/Register/PasswordLog in/Register/Password

question about newbie gains

 
   Fitness Forums (Home) -> Beginner Weight Training RSS
Related Topics:
My beginner workout routine good? - I started lifting weights about a month ago, and I have asked for advice from my friends and I wanted to know if what I am doing is correct. A typical week at the gym looks like this: (a rep about equal to 10 tries) Monday: 10 min run to warm up, 3..

Question for old newbie - Age 52, M, 5'11, lifelong narrow slightly wide hips. Just dropped 40 pounds to 175 on docs orders (eat most veggie, fish maybe three times a week.) Looking thin, but I am already losing muscle mass, I can tell, and sure enough when I went to..

Newbie fitness/protein shake question - Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post this. I'm a 37 year old male, 5' 10" and about a life long couch potato with pretty much no muscle. Been using free weights and the treadmill for the past 2 days with one day a..

Newbie - Hi I have just joined a gym for first time in my life. I am male, 21, 5ft 7 and at just 9 stone 8lbs. I am I have been advised that my best bet for size is to use the weights and then use something like swimming for my..

Advice needed - newbie - Hello everyone I was just after a little advice really, there seems to be so much on the web, but I figured it would be better getting info from the horses mouth, so to speak. :) I'd like to develop my upper body somewhat, I'm fairly slim at the moment.
Next:  Beginner Weight Training: newbie group question  
Author Message
oregonchick

External


Since: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 127



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:16 pm
Post subject: question about newbie gains
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)

I have heard that "newbie gains" allow a person new to exercise/weight
lifting a grace period so to speak where they can lose fat and gain muscle
simultaneously. After a certain amount of time, one has to switch between
cutting and bulking. Would this apply to someone who had simply been "laid
off" for 3 years? Can you really lose fat and gain muscle at the same time?
How long does that normally last? Is there any good info about this on the
web?

The reason why I'm asking is that after lifting for a month, I weigh the
same, but seem to be losing fat because my clothes are starting to fit
looser.

Betsy

 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
Curt James

External


Since: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1479



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

oregonchick wrote:
> I have heard that "newbie gains" allow a person new to
> exercise/weight lifting a grace period so to speak where
> they can lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously.

I wouldn't call it a grace period, but someone just beginning their
training will typically see results that are more dramatic than someone
who has been training for years. Also, yes, people can lose fat and
gain muscle at the same time. Fat and muscle are two separate tissues.

People still believe that fat turns to muscle which, to me, is evidence
of a lack of knowledge. May be of interest:
http://www.naturalstrength.com/features/detail2.asp?AuthorID=169&ArticleID=108


> After a certain amount of time, one has to switch between
> cutting and bulking.

Why?

Or, rather, define bulking. Many people say they're bulking which
translates to "I'm eating anything that doesn't move and some stuff
that does! I'm training heavy and gaining strength and muscle, but I'm
also gaining some fat which is acceptable to me. GRRR!!!" Others define
bulking as putting on lean mass by training hard... intensely.
Battering the muscle, resting, eating enough of the right stuff without
going porko gonzo.

Also define cutting. Are you speaking of an attempt to reach the
impossible zero percent and look like the bodybuilders in the
magazines? Or do you mean to watch your diet and reach a reasonably low
and cut-looking percentage?

> Would this apply to someone who had simply been "laid
> off" for 3 years?

I think your initial idea is wrong so far as there being a need to
choose between working hard for lean tissue gain or cutting for a
reduced bodyfat percentage. Muscle memory would apply to someone who
had simply been "laid off" for 3 years, though. If you had the strength
and muscle size once then it's easier to gain that back than to start
from scratch.

> Can you really lose fat and gain muscle at the same time?

Yes.

Some, however, say no. See: http://www.intense-workout.com/same.html

> How long does that normally last?

Forever, so long as you're maintaining the correct training,
supplementation, and diet. And, of course, you're encountering no
physical problems that would prevent you from benefiting from your
program.

> Is there any good info about this on the web?

Okay, define good info...

Regardless, my vote? Yes.

https://davedraper.com/online-17-gain-muscle.html
http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/101/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm
http://www.gainmuscleandlosefat.com/

....

Creatine Sugar mixes

There is no need to pay additional money for added sugar and simple
carbs to
your creatine mixes in order to increase insulin and loading response
of the
creatine. Instead, buy your own sugar for the cost of table sugar at
the
supermarket instead of for the cost of creatine and make your own
blends if you
feel necessary. From: http://www.gainmuscleandlosefat.com/

Damn. This has me glowering at my Body Fortress creatine mix and its 43
grams of schtuuuff and 32 grams of sugar. Still, it's from Wal-Mart and
might just be cheaper than table sugar.

Uh, yeah, all this Googling is fact-filled fun for me, too.

....

What?

Okay, just "for me."

> The reason why I'm asking is that after lifting for a month, I weigh the
> same, but seem to be losing fat because my clothes are starting to fit
> looser.

While muscle does not weigh more than fat, it certainly takes up a lot
more room on your body. In other words, "A pound of muscle is denser,
firmer and takes up less space," according to the fine folk at
http://www.thewalkingsite.com/scale.html

So, say you lose five pounds of fat while gaining five pounds of
muscle. Will you weigh the same? Duh. Yes. But will you look different?
I suspect the answer is yes and also that your clothes will "fit
looser" as the fat takes up less space.

Make sense? Yes!

--
Curt

 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
Pez D Spencer

External


Since: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 198



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:08 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

yes, you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

there is no physiological basis for saying that you can't.
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
oregonchick

External


Since: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 127



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:23 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Curt James" <curtjames.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152467556.819975.172760@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> oregonchick wrote:
>> I have heard that "newbie gains" allow a person new to
>> exercise/weight lifting a grace period so to speak where
>> they can lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously.
>
> I wouldn't call it a grace period, but someone just beginning their
> training will typically see results that are more dramatic than someone
> who has been training for years. Also, yes, people can lose fat and
> gain muscle at the same time. Fat and muscle are two separate tissues.
>
> People still believe that fat turns to muscle which, to me, is evidence
> of a lack of knowledge. May be of interest:

No. No misconceptions there. I understand that they are 2 different
tissues. I also understand that to gain significant muscle you have to be
in a calorie surplus, while just the opposite is needed to lose fat.....am I
right? >
>
>> After a certain amount of time, one has to switch between
>> cutting and bulking.
>
> Why?
>
> Or, rather, define bulking.

when your primary goal is to gain muscle - by eating over maintenance level
and focusing more on heavy lifting...

>
> Also define cutting. Are you speaking of an attempt to reach the
> impossible zero percent and look like the bodybuilders in the
> magazines? Or do you mean to watch your diet and reach a reasonably low
> and cut-looking percentage?

When the primary goal is to lose fat...by eating below maintenance and doing
plenty of exercise (weights and cardio) to achieve a calorie deficit. In my
case, I'd just like to see the low 20's bf%-wise.

Thanks for the info!

Betsy
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
Curt James

External


Since: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1479



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

oregonchick wrote:
> "Curt James" <curtjames.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
[...]

> > People still believe that fat turns to muscle whi<snip>

> No. No misconceptions there. I understand that they are 2 different
> tissues. I also understand that to gain significant muscle you have to be
> in a calorie surplus, while just the opposite is needed to lose fat.....am I
> right?

Yes.

> >> After a certain amount of time, one has to switch between
> >> cutting and bulking.
> >
> > Why?
> >
> > Or, rather, define bulking.
>
> when your primary goal is to gain muscle - by eating over maintenance level
> and focusing more on heavy lifting...

Yup. That's what I've read, too.

> > Also define cutting. Are you spea<snip>

> When the primary goal is to lose fat...by eating below maintenance and doing
> plenty of exercise (weights and cardio) to achieve a calorie deficit. In my
> case, I'd just like to see the low 20's bf%-wise.

Yes, again. And best of luck in reaching your goal. Me? Note to Santa:
I want less Buddha on my belly (short term goal), to get 3 sets of 8
reps with 60's on my seated dumbbell presses (medium term goal), and a
415 gym deadlift (long term goal). Oh, yeah, a 15-inch flexed bicep
wouldn't hurt.

> Thanks for the info!

You're welcome. Surprised)

> Betsy

--
Curt
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
joanne

External


Since: Jul 16, 2005
Posts: 139



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

oregonchick wrote:
> When the primary goal is to lose fat...by eating below maintenance and doing
> plenty of exercise (weights and cardio) to achieve a calorie deficit. In my
> case, I'd just like to see the low 20's bf%-wise.

If you lose bodyfat you will see more definition and at that point you
may not want to add on more muscle. People often think they need to add
on more muscle, but its only because they cant see under the fat layer
what they already have. I would wait till that time and not worry about
changing what seems to be working for you at this point. Recommend
getting a tape measure and jot down your measurements. Dont rely simply
on clothes fitting better and of course not just on the scale either.
Pics are good too to gage changes. ANd if you can get your bodyfat
measured to continue to see a downward trend.
A couple of reads on this site might be of interest to you - one about
stubborn bodyfat which mentions resetting your set point, another about
bodyfat percentages which gives you an idea of where you might want to
go to, and metabolism or how to create one :
http://skwigg.tripod.com/id24.html And you might want to wander over
to her eating section which gives you some calorie zigzag ideas.



joanne
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
DZ

External


Since: Jul 09, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Back to top
Login to vote
Curt James

External


Since: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1479



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Steve Freides wrote:
[...]

> Losing fat is always tough and adding muscle doesn't
> happen without adding fat, so it's best to get the fat
> down first. My opinion, anyway.

And an opinion shared by Vince Gironda, old school bodybuilding guru,
R.I.P.

http://www.bodybuildinglive.com/vincegironda/

He is one who absolutely didn't believe you could gain muscle and lost
fat simultaneously.

> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

--
Curt
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
Steve Freides

External


Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 2025



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"joanne" <jgrrl2.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1152471752.648154.174950@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> oregonchick wrote:
>> When the primary goal is to lose fat...by eating below maintenance
>> and doing
>> plenty of exercise (weights and cardio) to achieve a calorie deficit.
>> In my
>> case, I'd just like to see the low 20's bf%-wise.
>
> If you lose bodyfat you will see more definition and at that point you
> may not want to add on more muscle. People often think they need to
> add
> on more muscle, but its only because they cant see under the fat layer
> what they already have. -snip-

Good point and one not stated often enough around here, IMHO. For most
overweight, out of shape folks, get on the scale every day and be sure
your total weight is going down, and keep lifting. If your bodyfat
percentage gets stuck somewhere, eat less, and get your weight down.
Once you are lean and thin, then it's time to add muscle if you wish.
Losing fat is always tough and adding muscle doesn't happen without
adding fat, so it's best to get the fat down first. My opinion, anyway.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
Steve Freides

External


Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 2025



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:49 am
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Curt James" <curtjames RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152495406.481584.119670@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
> [...]
>
>> Losing fat is always tough and adding muscle doesn't
>> happen without adding fat, so it's best to get the fat
>> down first. My opinion, anyway.
>
> And an opinion shared by Vince Gironda, old school bodybuilding guru,
> R.I.P.
>
> http://www.bodybuildinglive.com/vincegironda/
>
> He is one who absolutely didn't believe you could gain muscle and lost
> fat simultaneously.

We all know that newbies can, but it goes back to the all-too-uncommon
common sense of not trying to do too many things at once - pick the
biggest problem, make some progress on it, and when it's mostly solved,
think about what's next. For most people asking for advice here, that
biggest problem is how to lose the lard. so that ought to be the first
order of business. Given what we know about the human body, the best
way to do that seems to be to cut calories, lift weights, and do some
cardio. There is nothing new under the sun.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
oregonchick

External


Since: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 127



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:49 am
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Steve Freides" <steve.RemoveThis@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:4hdpt9F1qgvn5U1@individual.net...
> "Curt James" <curtjames.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1152495406.481584.119670@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>> Losing fat is always tough and adding muscle doesn't
>>> happen without adding fat, so it's best to get the fat
>>> down first. My opinion, anyway.
>>
>> And an opinion shared by Vince Gironda, old school bodybuilding guru,
>> R.I.P.
>>
>> http://www.bodybuildinglive.com/vincegironda/
>>
>> He is one who absolutely didn't believe you could gain muscle and lost
>> fat simultaneously.
>
> We all know that newbies can, but it goes back to the all-too-uncommon
> common sense of not trying to do too many things at once

This is what finally sank in with me today. Keep it simple - I clearly need
to lose fat more than anything else right now, but weight lifting is
definitely not counterproductive to that. I just probably need to add more
cardio in to get a better calorie deficit...

I guess I just needed a reality check.
 >> Stay informed about: question about newbie gains 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joe Humble

External


Since: Jul 09, 2005
Posts: 339



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: question about newbie gains [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Fitness Forums (Home) -> Beginner Weight Training All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Page 1 of 1

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]