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External
Since: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 110
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(Msg. 61) Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>martial-arts, others (more info?)
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In article <RJlVd.3351$L17.1357@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, "The
Sanity Cruzer" <saNnOitycruzer.RemoveThis@eSaPrAtMhlink.net> wrote:
> "Hobbes" <khobman800.RemoveThis@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:khobman800-0203050901050001@localhost...
>
> > The solution? Simple. As you suggest - weigh in just prior to the bout.
> > Especially in high school sports it is ludicrous not following this
> > advice. It is no big deal to have a scale sitting ringside and make them
> > weigh in.
>
> Regarding boxing, they moved the weigh-ins to the day prior to the bouts
> specifically so the fighters would have the opportunity to rehydrated
> themselves. Fighters are going to 'dry out', regardless of when they
> weigh-in relative to their bouts. Athletic commissions in boxing decided it
> was safer, if fighters are going to 'dry out' regardless of the weigh-in
> time, the safest thing to was to give the fighters ample time to replace the
> liquids in their body.
Yeah, this is the unfortunate thing with these sports. Old-line coaches
refuse to stop dangerous practises. If they dropped too much weight and
weighed in just prior to bouts their performance would be jeopardized.
But dropping weight is an integral part of the game to some coaches. If
you don't drop weight you are a wussy and often the measure of how tough
you are is how much you can take in weight loss. High school wrestlers die
from trying to make weight. What does it take to give theses coaches a
clue?
I would still do it and then have an official disqualify the wrestler if
their are obvious signs of dehydration. In Canada a high school wrestling
coach faces permanent ban if he suggests a wrestler use a sauna or
similiar method to make weight. But of course the word gets out to
wrestlers.
My son was asked to drop a pile of weight for nationals last year - just
so they could spread the club wrestlers through a couple of weight
classes. It was obscene. At the last practice prior to weighin he was so
out of it that he bandages the wrong hand. He had dislocated his finger on
his left hand and it was at least twice the size of the finger on the
right hand. He had taken to taping it to another finger. He taped the
wrong hand. He was almost incoherent (apparently - I wasn't there) and his
lips looked like bloody hell.
His marks dropped that semester at school, mainly due to missed
assignments during the three weeks he spent dropping 12 kgs of weight. I
basically told him never again - I don't care what the coaches ask you to
do. I tried dropping 6-7 kgs in 24 hours for weightlifting nationals just
to get a feel for what it does. By the end, as I was boiling in the tub, I
couldn't even read my short-term memory was so screwed up. And I'm a
voracious reader.
The studies are there. I don't think athletic commissions have any right
to condone dangerous practises. The idea is to get excessive dehyrdration
out of sport. Do what it takes. Don't condone it. |
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External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 62) Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Hobbes" <khobman800 DeleteThis @REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:khobman800-0203050801360001@localhost...
>
> I'll tell you one thing - I hate making weight by using diuretics. Sleep
> becomes a huge issue. ...
Moreover, that's how even bodybuilders have died. Diuretics are very bad
news, they can push your body into a place where the chemistry goes berserk,
and it's not a pretty way to go.
As an amateur, I fought at 178 even though my walk around weight was in the
190s (and we're talking single digit bodyfat), and it was always a very
draining experience. I hated it, and I never felt physically great. It is
rather telling when you notice that your usual workout utterly exhausts you
halfway through it. That's why I think the whole thing about fighting under
weight is a questionable advantage - it'll work until it doesn't, and the
fight in which it'll catch up to you is pre-programmed. For every HBO
announcer oohing and aahing about someone putting on 10lbs before a fight,
there's a boxer who after the fight claims he lost because he can't make the
weight anymore and that he's stepping up to the next division.
....pablo |
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External
Since: Jan 09, 2005
Posts: 229
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(Msg. 63) Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Charles" <charles RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote in message
news:pfjb2117vl22mg3m9p7eujk7858qudl52h@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 08:01:36 -0600, khobman800 RemoveThis @REMOVEyahoo.com
> (Hobbes) wrote:
>
>>In article <hQcVd.8421$OU1.597@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, "pablo"
>><pablo.at.simply RemoveThis @hombre.dot.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The benefits of coffee for weight loss: short term, it is a light
>>> diuretic,
>>> meaning it'll make you urinate. That is also because of the major
>>> weight-loss benefit: it'll curb your metabolism, meaning it'll up your
>>> heart
>>> rate, and that means your body burns more calories. Hence some weight
>>> loss.
>>> That's why every weight loss pill has caffeine in it. But those effects
>>> will
>>> be very mild in only 9 days.
>>
>>I'll tell you one thing - I hate making weight by using diuretics. Sleep
>>becomes a huge issue. I much prefer getting within a couple of kgs of
>>weight and then sweating it off with a sauna or tub just prior to weighin.
>
> I've always been rather against those that are in sports that have
> weight divisions, such as boxers and jockeys, feverishly attempting to
> gain advantage by competing one division below optimum.
>
> I know there is advantage to being at the top end of the weight
> division, but it occurs to me that it would be much better to compete
> at a weight level that is 'comfortably' achieved, and a reliably
> accurate arbiter of the division in which the competitor 'should' be
> competing.
>
> I always comfortably made middleweight when I was boxing, and met some
> very cumbersome opponents who should quite clearly have been in the
> division above.
>
> I have often thought that competitors should 'weigh in' immediately
> before a bout, and stop all the 'cheating', for have no doubt, that is
> in fact what it is!!
In lightweight rowing the earliest weigh in time is 2 hours before the race.
If you have more than one race on a day, you need only weigh in once
(possibly this changes if the races are separated by several hours, but
normally that doesn't happen). If you are in a multiple-day event (e.g. a
serious regatta) then you must make weight 2 hours before the race, every
day you compete.
I suppose you could require people to weigh in immediately before the event
(for rowing this would be a pain as you want to be on the water warming up
40 minutes or so ahead of time, but that's not the case for most sports),
but the problem here is when someone is maybe 100g over the limit - do you
simply disqualify them immediately or do you let them have 10 minutes to
sweat it off, but screw up the schedule?
I certainly agree that sports where the weigh in is many hours before or
where there is only one weigh in in a multi-day competition are being silly.
However I don't think it's cheating to follow the rules. Stand up and say
the rules should be changed, fine, but labelling everyone who doesn't
comfortably make weight a cheat won't help your cause. In any case, it's not
as if having weigh ins close to the race (or fight, or whatever) really
changes things that much. People will still scrape just inside the limits,
just they won't be able to get away with half-killing themselves
dehydrating. Top lightweight rowers will often weigh 75kg or more a week
before the race, weigh in at 70kg, and probably weigh 71-72kg by the time
they're actually racing.
Peter >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 938
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(Msg. 64) Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:31 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:01:05 -0600, khobman800.DeleteThis@REMOVEyahoo.com
(Hobbes) wrote:
>In article <pfjb2117vl22mg3m9p7eujk7858qudl52h.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, Charles
><charles.DeleteThis@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 08:01:36 -0600, khobman800.DeleteThis@REMOVEyahoo.com
>> (Hobbes) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <hQcVd.8421$OU1.597@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, "pablo"
>> ><pablo.at.simply.DeleteThis@hombre.dot.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The benefits of coffee for weight loss: short term, it is a light
>diuretic,
>> >> meaning it'll make you urinate. That is also because of the major
>> >> weight-loss benefit: it'll curb your metabolism, meaning it'll up
>your heart
>> >> rate, and that means your body burns more calories. Hence some weight
>loss.
>> >> That's why every weight loss pill has caffeine in it. But those
>effects will
>> >> be very mild in only 9 days.
>> >
>> >I'll tell you one thing - I hate making weight by using diuretics. Sleep
>> >becomes a huge issue. I much prefer getting within a couple of kgs of
>> >weight and then sweating it off with a sauna or tub just prior to weighin.
>>
>> I've always been rather against those that are in sports that have
>> weight divisions, such as boxers and jockeys, feverishly attempting to
>> gain advantage by competing one division below optimum.
>>
>> I know there is advantage to being at the top end of the weight
>> division, but it occurs to me that it would be much better to compete
>> at a weight level that is 'comfortably' achieved, and a reliably
>> accurate arbiter of the division in which the competitor 'should' be
>> competing.
>>
>> I always comfortably made middleweight when I was boxing, and met some
>> very cumbersome opponents who should quite clearly have been in the
>> division above.
>>
>> I have often thought that competitors should 'weigh in' immediately
>> before a bout, and stop all the 'cheating', for have no doubt, that is
>> in fact what it is!!
>
>No, I don't agree with the term 'cheating'. Weightlifting is weighed in
>within 2 hours of competition. If you drop too much, you pay a price in
>performance. OTOH, dropping a couple of kilos is easy, comfortable and
>doesn't affect performance.
>
>Wrestling is where the problem lies. In a three or four day tournament you
>can weight in 8-10 kgs under what you wrestle at the last day of the
>tournament. If one wrestler goes that route the rest of the field are
>pretty much forced to do so to be competitive. It is not cheating to
>follow the rules of the game and level the playing field.
>
>You simply cannot give up 8-10 kgs at international level and wrestle
>effectively in most weight classes. It can't be done.
>
>The solution? Simple. As you suggest - weigh in just prior to the bout.
>Especially in high school sports it is ludicrous not following this
>advice. It is no big deal to have a scale sitting ringside and make them
>weigh in.
If it's good for one it's good for them all, but I think we basically
agree!! ;o) >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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Since: Mar 02, 2005
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 65) Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:53 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)
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In article <d04qre$mub$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, Peter Allen wrote:
> (for rowing this would be a pain as you want to be on the water warming up
> 40 minutes or so ahead of time, but that's not the case for most sports),
> but the problem here is when someone is maybe 100g over the limit - do you
> simply disqualify them immediately or do you let them have 10 minutes to
> sweat it off, but screw up the schedule?
Could you have small penalties for small overages, and some cutoff
not far above the real limit that would be disqualification?
-- Dan
--
Dan Cosley (cosley@Never.Spam.cs.umn.edu * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/)
GroupLens Research Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372)
*** Just a foot soldier in the Army of Truth *** >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 66) Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:01 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>martial-arts, others (more info?)
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External
Since: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 233
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(Msg. 67) Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>>>>>>>Actually, drinking coffee will help a person drop weight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How so?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Diuretic effect---assuming the coffee isn't decaff.
Plus it's the caffeine in your ephedrine/caffeine stack.
> But if you drink it chronically, like many people do, you'll reach a
> steady state of hydration. That level may be a bit lower than
> non-coffee drinkers, but if a person were to get 100% of their fluid
> intake from coffee, I very much doubt they'd die of dehydration.
Not dead yet. 
> They'd just be a little less hydrated than the average person.
Starbuck's baristas in flyover towns flinch a little the first time they
hear 'venti espresso, please'. >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2005
Posts: 453
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(Msg. 68) Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:58 am
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"hailtothekingbaby" <robert.white200 RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1109883695.444723.56360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> This is great. This post is even more illegible that the last -
> 'viking' was the only word i understood from this one. I hope she posts
> again.
I was pissed off half way through the post. It started to hurt my head.
She's a tard. >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 69) Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:26 am
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"hailtothekingbaby" <robert.white200 DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1109883695.444723.56360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> This is great. This post is even more illegible that the last -
You should look up the meaning of the word "illegible". English is the
other person's second language. What's your excuse? Or maybe it's your
monitor which makes what she writes "not legible".
> 'viking' was the only word i understood from this one. I hope she posts
> again.
> >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 938
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(Msg. 70) Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 04:58:27 GMT, "John"
<y_tu_momma_tambien DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>"hailtothekingbaby" <robert.white200 DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:1109883695.444723.56360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> This is great. This post is even more illegible that the last -
>> 'viking' was the only word i understood from this one. I hope she posts
>> again.
>
>I was pissed off half way through the post. It started to hurt my head.
>She's a tard.
I found it quite endearing and somewhat amusing, particularly once I
had figured out that it wasn't Lee Michaels!! ;o)
Have a great weekend - I always do!! ;o)
TFIF! >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 71) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Although the english was pretty bad, it wasnt that i was referring to.
Its the fact that even once translated, what she said STILL didnt make
any sense - that, and the fact she has an obsession with everyone
needing to look like vikings.
The Sanity Cruzer wrote:
> "hailtothekingbaby" <robert.white200.TakeThisOut@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:1109883695.444723.56360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > This is great. This post is even more illegible that the last -
>
> You should look up the meaning of the word "illegible". English is
the
> other person's second language. What's your excuse? Or maybe it's
your
> monitor which makes what she writes "not legible".
>
> > 'viking' was the only word i understood from this one. I hope she
posts
> > again.
> > >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 72) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Robert Low wrote:
> Bully wrote:
>> Robert Low wrote:
>>> Bully wrote:
>>>> John Hanson wrote:
>>>>> Actually, drinking coffee will help a person drop weight.
> >>> How so?
>>> Diuretic effect---assuming the coffee isn't decaff.
>> Doesn't the water in the coffee counteract this?
>
> Are you taking the piss? If not, the coffee will.
> The point is, the caffeine makes you pee more than
> the amount of coffee you drank.
No you are wrong. See the peer reviewed paper below:
J Am Coll Nutr 2000 Oct;19(5):591-600
The effect of caffeinated, non-caffeinated, caloric and non-caloric
beverages on hydration.
Grandjean AC, Reimers KJ, Bannick KE, Haven MC.
The Center for Human Nutrition, Omaha 68105, USA
OBJECTIVE: To examine the effect of various combinations of beverages on
hydration status in healthy free-living adult males. METHODS: In a
counterbalanced, crossover manner, 18 healthy adult males ages 24 to 39, on
four separate occasions, consumed water or water plus varying combinations
of beverages. Clinical guidelines were used to determine the fluid allowance
for each subject. The beverages were carbonated, caffeinated caloric and
non-caloric colas and coffee. Ten of the 18 subjects consumed water and
carbonated, non-caffeinated, citrus soft drink during a fifth trial. Body
weight, urine and blood assays were measured before and after each
treatment. RESULTS: Slight body weight loss was observed on all treatments,
with an average of 0.30% for all treatments. No differences (p>0.05) among
treatments were found for body weight changes or any of the biochemical
assays. Biochemical assays conducted on first voids and 24-hour urines
included electrolytes, creatine, osmolality and specific gravity. Blood
samples were analyzed for hemoglobin, hematocrit. electrolytes, osmolality,
urea nitrogen, creatinine and protein. CONCLUSIONS: This preliminary study
found no significant differences in the effect of various combinations of
beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males. Advising people to
disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the daily fluid intake is not
substantiated by the results of this study. The across-treatment weight loss
observed, when combined with data on fluid-disease relationships, suggests
that optimal fluid intake may be higher than common recommendations. Further
research is needed to confirm these results and to explore optimal fluid
intake for healthy individuals.
--
Mike Collins
UK
Mike&heather-at-oakwellmount-dot-freeserve-dot-co-dot-uk >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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Since: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 331
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(Msg. 73) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <d0cfr6$d7u$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Mike Collins"
<mike&heather DeleteThis @acornwellmount.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Robert Low wrote:
> > Bully wrote:
> >> Robert Low wrote:
> >>> Bully wrote:
> >>>> John Hanson wrote:
> >>>>> Actually, drinking coffee will help a person drop weight.
> > >>> How so?
> >>> Diuretic effect---assuming the coffee isn't decaff.
> >> Doesn't the water in the coffee counteract this?
> >
> > Are you taking the piss? If not, the coffee will.
> > The point is, the caffeine makes you pee more than
> > the amount of coffee you drank.
>
> No you are wrong. See the peer reviewed paper below:
>
> J Am Coll Nutr 2000 Oct;19(5):591-600
> The effect of caffeinated, non-caffeinated, caloric and non-caloric
> beverages on hydration.
> Grandjean AC, Reimers KJ, Bannick KE, Haven MC.
> The Center for Human Nutrition, Omaha 68105, USA
> OBJECTIVE: To examine the effect of various combinations of beverages on
> hydration status in healthy free-living adult males. METHODS: In a
> counterbalanced, crossover manner, 18 healthy adult males ages 24 to 39, on
> four separate occasions, consumed water or water plus varying combinations
> of beverages. Clinical guidelines were used to determine the fluid allowance
> for each subject. The beverages were carbonated, caffeinated caloric and
> non-caloric colas and coffee. Ten of the 18 subjects consumed water and
> carbonated, non-caffeinated, citrus soft drink during a fifth trial. Body
> weight, urine and blood assays were measured before and after each
> treatment. RESULTS: Slight body weight loss was observed on all treatments,
> with an average of 0.30% for all treatments. No differences (p>0.05) among
> treatments were found for body weight changes or any of the biochemical
> assays. Biochemical assays conducted on first voids and 24-hour urines
> included electrolytes, creatine, osmolality and specific gravity. Blood
> samples were analyzed for hemoglobin, hematocrit. electrolytes, osmolality,
> urea nitrogen, creatinine and protein. CONCLUSIONS: This preliminary study
> found no significant differences in the effect of various combinations of
> beverages on hydration status of healthy adult males. Advising people to
> disregard caffeinated beverages as part of the daily fluid intake is not
> substantiated by the results of this study. The across-treatment weight loss
> observed, when combined with data on fluid-disease relationships, suggests
> that optimal fluid intake may be higher than common recommendations. Further
> research is needed to confirm these results and to explore optimal fluid
> intake for healthy individuals.
The paper has nothing to do with losing weight by drinking coffee. All the
subjects drank water!
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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Since: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 74) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:51 pm
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On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 08:46:46 -0600, Hobbes <khobman DeleteThis @sasktel.net> wrote:
[snip]
METHODS: In a
>> counterbalanced, crossover manner, 18 healthy adult males ages 24 to
>> 39, on
>> four separate occasions, consumed water or water plus varying
>> combinations
>> of beverages.
>> The beverages were carbonated, caffeinated caloric and
>> non-caloric colas and coffee.
>
> The paper has nothing to do with losing weight by drinking coffee. All
> the
> subjects drank water!
>
Umm "The beverages were carbonated, caffeinated caloric and non-caloric
colas and <coffee>."
--
Keith Beall
http://www.bodybuildingtracker.com/member_profiles.php?username=Maddriver >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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External
Since: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 331
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(Msg. 75) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:51 pm
Post subject: Re: making weight [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <opsm6hbdr2faw4ha@monster>, "Keith Beall"
<keith.beall.DeleteThis@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 08:46:46 -0600, Hobbes <khobman.DeleteThis@sasktel.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> METHODS: In a
> >> counterbalanced, crossover manner, 18 healthy adult males ages 24 to =
> =
>
> >> 39, on
> >> four separate occasions, consumed water or water plus varying =
>
> >> combinations
> >> of beverages.
> >> The beverages were carbonated, caffeinated caloric and
> >> non-caloric colas and coffee.
>
> >
> > The paper has nothing to do with losing weight by drinking coffee. All=
> =
>
> > the
> > subjects drank water!
> >
>
> Umm "The beverages were carbonated, caffeinated caloric and non-caloric =
> =
>
> colas and <coffee>."
Read it. "Water or water plus..."
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: making weight |
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