inevitable question on deadlift form

"Hugh Beyer" <beyerxyzzy.TakeThisOut@acm.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9638B1DF7DFF0hughrbeyeracmorg@130.81.64.196...
> Stock <think.TakeThisOut@something.org> wrote in
> news:Xns9638AFAFE5D80mayormaynotsaydunnoc@213.155.197.138:
>
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>> I've been lifting inconsistantly for about the last two years, though
>> have been attempting to go at it more seriously, as of late. I'm
>> pretty
>> confident in my form for most of the lifts I do, but I've been trying
>> to
>> bring deadlifts into things, though I'm extremely unsure on my form
>> so
>> far.
>>
>> I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I
>> go
>> up, though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and
>> knees at the same time, which I get the impression is right. I could
>> avoid the knees if I start with my hips a little sooner than my
>> knees,
>> though am unsure if this is okay or not.
>
> You should be as close to them as possible without hitting them.
>
> Dunno about moving hips and knees at the same time.

Yeah - I don't think my knees move much at all during my deadlifts.
Hamstring flexibility is important here.

The idea I've always heard is that you want to be moving the hips and
shoulders at the same time, IOW, you don't want the hips to come up
without the shoulder (and, therefore the bar) coming up as well. Never
heard about knees and hips.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> Think that you're
> keeping the same back angle for the first part of the lift--until the
> bar
> passes your knees. So shoulders and hips at the same time.
>
> Hugh
>
>
> --
> Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

Stock wrote:

> I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I go up,
> though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and knees at
> the same time, which I get the impression is right. I could avoid the knees
> if I start with my hips a little sooner than my knees, though am unsure if
> this is okay or not.

Ideally, the bar should slide up the shins and legs. It shouldn't actually
hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like the bar is too far in
front of you if the bar hits the knees first. For conventional style
deadlift, the knees should be over the bar at the start. The hips and
shoulders should rise together.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:46:42 -0500, Jeff Finlayson
<finlayson DeleteThis @hiwaaay.not> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>Stock wrote:
>
>> I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I go up,
>> though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and knees at
>> the same time, which I get the impression is right. I could avoid the knees
>> if I start with my hips a little sooner than my knees, though am unsure if
>> this is okay or not.
>
>Ideally, the bar should slide up the shins and legs. It shouldn't actually
>hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like the bar is too far in
>front of you if the bar hits the knees first. For conventional style
>deadlift, the knees should be over the bar at the start. The hips and
>shoulders should rise together.

Define slide. Sliding the bar up your upper leg will get you
redlighted (at least in the USPF and USAPL). That is called ramping
and is illegal. I'll bet you meant that the bar should stay as close
to your legs without being "slid up them"...or not.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

John Hanson wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>Stock wrote:

>>>I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I go up,
>>>though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and knees at
>>>the same time, which I get the impression is right.

>>Ideally, the bar should slide up[against] the shins and legs. It shouldn't actually
>>hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like the bar is too far in
>>front of you if the bar hits the knees first. For conventional style
>>deadlift, the knees should be over the bar at the start. The hips and
>>shoulders should rise together.
>
> Define slide.
> I'll bet you meant that the bar should stay as close
> to your legs without being "slid up them".

Yes. Slide AGAINST the legs without resting on them. The bar stays
in contact with the legs. However you want to say it..

> Sliding the bar up your upper leg will get you redlighted

Right. Backward lean with the bar sliding up on the legs ought to
be hitching. That's certainly not what I meant.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:00:24 -0500, Jeff Finlayson
<finlayson RemoveThis @hiwaaay.not> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>John Hanson wrote:
>> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>>Stock wrote:
>
>>>>I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I go up,
>>>>though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and knees at
>>>>the same time, which I get the impression is right.
>
>>>Ideally, the bar should slide up[against] the shins and legs. It shouldn't actually
>>>hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like the bar is too far in
>>>front of you if the bar hits the knees first. For conventional style
>>>deadlift, the knees should be over the bar at the start. The hips and
>>>shoulders should rise together.
>>
>> Define slide.
>> I'll bet you meant that the bar should stay as close
>> to your legs without being "slid up them".
>
>Yes. Slide AGAINST the legs without resting on them. The bar stays
>in contact with the legs. However you want to say it..
>
>> Sliding the bar up your upper leg will get you redlighted
>
>Right. Backward lean with the bar sliding up on the legs ought to
>be hitching. That's certainly not what I meant.

Not to be a prick (unlike what I said to Lee) but I've been to many
meets where newbie lifters do this and get redlighted. I just wanted
to make a clarification. So how is your training going these days,
Jeff? I haven't heard too many meet reports from you lately and don't
get to the weightrainersunited forum very often. I assume you still
post there.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

"Jeff Finlayson" <finlayson.TakeThisOut@hiwaaay.not> wrote in message
news:115uhpb7s8c7ncc@corp.supernews.com...
> Stock wrote:
>
>> I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I
>> go up,
>> though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and knees
>> at
>> the same time, which I get the impression is right. I could avoid the
>> knees
>> if I start with my hips a little sooner than my knees, though am
>> unsure if
>> this is okay or not.
>
> Ideally, the bar should slide up the shins and legs. It shouldn't
> actually
> hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like the bar is too
> far in
> front of you if the bar hits the knees first. For conventional style
> deadlift, the knees should be over the bar at the start.

For me, it's butt way back and shins vertical (closest analogue would be
a box squat for most people) and the bar doesn't touch until the lift is
almost done. Here's me demonstrating, 345 lbs. @ 150 lbs. bodyweight:
Because I'm relatively short-legged and also relatively flexible, I
start closer to the bar than most people, but the principles I'm trying
to follow work just fine for other builds, too, you'd just a little
further from the bar, maybe having the bar over the balls of the feet.
Longer legs would mean your butt would be lower, too, but I don't drop
mine nearly as much as most people.

http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm

> The hips and shoulders should rise together.

That I'll agree with. I would describe my DL in much the same was as
you've done above. Nothing wrong with the way you're doing it if that's
what you like but it's certainly not the only way.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

John Hanson wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>John Hanson wrote:
>>>Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>>>Stock wrote:

>>>>>I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I go up,
>>>>>though so far I can't seem to avoid that, If I move my hips and knees at
>>>>>the same time, which I get the impression is right.
>>
>>>>Ideally, the bar should slide up[against] the shins and legs. It shouldn't actually
>>>>hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like the bar is too far in
>>>>front of you if the bar hits the knees first. For conventional style
>>>>deadlift, the knees should be over the bar at the start. The hips and
>>>>shoulders should rise together.
>>>
>>>Define slide.
>>>I'll bet you meant that the bar should stay as close
>>>to your legs without being "slid up them".
>>
>>Yes. Slide AGAINST the legs without resting on them. The bar stays
>>in contact with the legs. However you want to say it..
>>
>>>Sliding the bar up your upper leg will get you redlighted
>>
>>Right. Backward lean with the bar sliding up on the legs ought to
>>be hitching. That's certainly not what I meant.
>
> Not to be a prick (unlike what I said to Lee) but I've been to many
> meets where newbie lifters do this and get redlighted. I just wanted
> to make a clarification. So how is your training going these days,
> Jeff? I haven't heard too many meet reports from you lately and don't
> get to the weightrainersunited forum very often. I assume you still
> post there.

I understand. Yea, I still post there.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

Steve Freides wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>Stock wrote:

>>>I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I
>>>go up, though so far I can't seem to avoid that, ...

>>Ideally, the bar should slide up the shins and legs. It shouldn't
>>actually hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like
>>the bar is too far in front of you if the bar hits the knees first.
>>For conventional style deadlift, the knees should be over the
>>bar at the start.

> For me, it's butt way back and shins vertical (closest analogue would be
> a box squat for most people) and the bar doesn't touch until the lift is
> almost done. Here's me demonstrating, 345 lbs. @ 150 lbs. bodyweight:
> http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm

> Because I'm relatively short-legged and also relatively flexible, I
> start closer to the bar than most people, but the principles I'm trying
> to follow work just fine for other builds, too, you'd just a little
> further from the bar, maybe having the bar over the balls of the feet.
> Longer legs would mean your butt would be lower, too, but I don't drop
> mine nearly as much as most people.

Sure, you're describes your technique here times before.

>>The hips and shoulders should rise together.
>
> That I'll agree with. I would describe my DL in much the same was as
> you've done above. Nothing wrong with the way you're doing it if that's
> what you like but it's certainly not the only way.

It's not just my way. Most lifters have their knees over the bar on
their conventional DL set-up. RDC says the knees, hips and shoulders
should all be as close to a line (vertical plane) up from the bar.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

Jeff Finlayson <finlayson.DeleteThis@hiwaaay.not> wrote in
news:1163h0mpstjdvb3@corp.supernews.com:

> Steve Freides wrote:
>> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>>Stock wrote:
>
>>>>I've been told it's undesirable to hit my knees with the bar when I
>>>>go up, though so far I can't seem to avoid that, ...
>
>>>Ideally, the bar should slide up the shins and legs. It shouldn't
>>>actually hit the knees, maybe contact the shins. Sounds like
>>>the bar is too far in front of you if the bar hits the knees first.
>>>For conventional style deadlift, the knees should be over the
>>>bar at the start.
>
>> For me, it's butt way back and shins vertical (closest analogue would
>> be a box squat for most people) and the bar doesn't touch until the
>> lift is almost done. Here's me demonstrating, 345 lbs. @ 150 lbs.
>> bodyweight:
>> http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm
>
>> Because I'm relatively short-legged and also relatively flexible, I
>> start closer to the bar than most people, but the principles I'm trying
>> to follow work just fine for other builds, too, you'd just a little
>> further from the bar, maybe having the bar over the balls of the feet.
>> Longer legs would mean your butt would be lower, too, but I don't drop
>> mine nearly as much as most people.
>
> Sure, you're describes your technique here times before.
>
>>>The hips and shoulders should rise together.
>>
>> That I'll agree with. I would describe my DL in much the same was as
>> you've done above. Nothing wrong with the way you're doing it if
>> that's what you like but it's certainly not the only way.
>
> It's not just my way. Most lifters have their knees over the bar on
> their conventional DL set-up. RDC says the knees, hips and shoulders
> should all be as close to a line (vertical plane) up from the bar.

Surely not hips?

Hugh

--
Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will attend no other.
 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form 

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 >> Stay informed about: inevitable question on deadlift form