Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting

Hobbes wrote:
> In article <1121120614.614786.37400.DeleteThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> universatile.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Isnt it feasable that one could bodybuild to gain muscle mass , then
> > train one rep max to learn how to recruit the gained contractile
> > protein?
> >
> > Would it not be diligent to first train 6-12 reps for size then train
> > 1rep max to hit the nervous system, and wouldnt this make for a better
> > power lifter than one who eschews 6-12 rep training?
> >
> > also soreness means increased endomere hypertrophy right? opinions?
> >
>
> There is a school of thought that hypertrophy is not necessarily the
> same with different training protocols. The theory is that bodybuilding
> type of training cause hypertrophy of the sarcomere and that strength
> and power training causes hypertrophy of the contractile tissue itself -
> the myofibrils.
>
> And the reality if training seems to support this. The most imposing
> musculature specimens in a gym are rarely the strongest or most
> explosive.
>
> --
> Keith


During excentric contractions muscles lengthen under pressure and this
is how soreness occurs, because this is how muscles are torn and build
up stronger in order to more capably lengthen under pressure from
increased loads. Is this hypertrophy of a sort specific only to
excentric contraction or can the newly accrued (eccentrric) contractile
protein be utilized for concentric contractions as well?

Sprinters gain muscle mass in order to increase contractile protein and
they use higher rep regimens. To the sprinter, more contractile protein
means more speed (souping up the engine so to speak.)

The way I percieve sarcoplasmic and sarcomere hypertrophy in my own
body is that sarcoplasmic is the pump that can last for a short while
after working out alot, and sarcomere is the muscle mass that is
perceptably gained after the pump goes down, such as when I take breaks
from lifting.

What are some opinions, do negatives increase sarcomere, does muscle
soreness mean sarcomere hypertrophy because it is the actual fibres
that have been stressed and not the pockets of fluid and what not?

thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting 

In article <1121131901.189235.92530.RemoveThis@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
universatile.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:

> Hobbes wrote:
> > In article <1121120614.614786.37400.RemoveThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> > universatile.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > Isnt it feasable that one could bodybuild to gain muscle mass , then
> > > train one rep max to learn how to recruit the gained contractile
> > > protein?
> > >
> > > Would it not be diligent to first train 6-12 reps for size then train
> > > 1rep max to hit the nervous system, and wouldnt this make for a better
> > > power lifter than one who eschews 6-12 rep training?
> > >
> > > also soreness means increased endomere hypertrophy right? opinions?
> > >
> >
> > There is a school of thought that hypertrophy is not necessarily the
> > same with different training protocols. The theory is that bodybuilding
> > type of training cause hypertrophy of the sarcomere and that strength
> > and power training causes hypertrophy of the contractile tissue itself -
> > the myofibrils.
> >
> > And the reality if training seems to support this. The most imposing
> > musculature specimens in a gym are rarely the strongest or most
> > explosive.
> >
> > --
> > Keith
>
>
> During excentric contractions muscles lengthen under pressure and this
> is how soreness occurs, because this is how muscles are torn and build
> up stronger in order to more capably lengthen under pressure from
> increased loads. Is this hypertrophy of a sort specific only to
> excentric contraction or can the newly accrued (eccentrric) contractile
> protein be utilized for concentric contractions as well?

Strength is specific to the type of contraction. If you gain mass from
eccentric training there is some carryover to concentric strength.
>
> Sprinters gain muscle mass in order to increase contractile protein and
> they use higher rep regimens. To the sprinter, more contractile protein
> means more speed (souping up the engine so to speak.)

Not really. They do some strength training, but they spend so much time
actually sprinting that the strength training is minor in comparison.
And they don't worry about bulk - they worry about strength. And for the
most part their strength training is aimed at the start.
>
> The way I percieve sarcoplasmic and sarcomere hypertrophy in my own
> body is that sarcoplasmic is the pump that can last for a short while
> after working out alot, and sarcomere is the muscle mass that is
> perceptably gained after the pump goes down, such as when I take breaks
> from lifting.

The pump is simply blood in the muscle.

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting 

> > > --
> > > Keith
> >
> >
> > During excentric contractions muscles lengthen under pressure and this
> > is how soreness occurs, because this is how muscles are torn and build
> > up stronger in order to more capably lengthen under pressure from
> > increased loads. Is this hypertrophy of a sort specific only to
> > excentric contraction or can the newly accrued (eccentrric) contractile
> > protein be utilized for concentric contractions as well?
>
> Strength is specific to the type of contraction. If you gain mass from
> eccentric training there is some carryover to concentric strength.

It just seems logical to me that if you want to gain strength of one
form, you employ a wide a wide variety of lifts, like cross training
for sports. I just dont see the body as a mechanism that would respond
better to highly specified training than to cross training, like
fast/slow high/low reps, heavy/light weights, etc.

> Not really. They do some strength training, but they spend so much time
> actually sprinting that the strength training is minor in comparison.
> And they don't worry about bulk - they worry about strength. And for the
> most part their strength training is aimed at the start.
> >

Weightlifting is very important for the sprinter. Maurice Greene
improved his times drastically by gaining muscle mass.

"Keep On Running, The Science OF Training And Performance" stresses the
importance of weightlifting as a means of increasing contractile
protein.

>
> The pump is simply blood in the muscle.

How do you know?
 >> Stay informed about: Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting 

In article <1121288509.193598.159850.RemoveThis@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
universatile.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:

> > > > --
> > > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > During excentric contractions muscles lengthen under pressure and this
> > > is how soreness occurs, because this is how muscles are torn and build
> > > up stronger in order to more capably lengthen under pressure from
> > > increased loads. Is this hypertrophy of a sort specific only to
> > > excentric contraction or can the newly accrued (eccentrric) contractile
> > > protein be utilized for concentric contractions as well?
> >
> > Strength is specific to the type of contraction. If you gain mass from
> > eccentric training there is some carryover to concentric strength.
>
> It just seems logical to me that if you want to gain strength of one
> form, you employ a wide a wide variety of lifts, like cross training
> for sports. I just dont see the body as a mechanism that would respond
> better to highly specified training than to cross training, like
> fast/slow high/low reps, heavy/light weights, etc.

And yet powerlifters and olympic lifters spend the majority of time
doing competition lifts and are very strong. Strongmen competitors have
to spend hours per day focusing in on contested events.

To use Hugh's analogy - if you want to learn to play the flute you don't
learn the kazoo. The fact that some bodybuilders have converted to
powerlifting and don't do generally do that well offers support.

Also, how do you explain the hypertrophy of athletes who don't use much
eccentric training? Swimmers come to mind in particular.
>
> > Not really. They do some strength training, but they spend so much time
> > actually sprinting that the strength training is minor in comparison.
> > And they don't worry about bulk - they worry about strength. And for the
> > most part their strength training is aimed at the start.
> > >
>
> Weightlifting is very important for the sprinter. Maurice Greene
> improved his times drastically by gaining muscle mass.

He improved his time by gaining strength. If he had of gained the same
strength without increasing mass (which may not be possible) he would
have been even faster. (Less mass to accelerate at the start).

The Russians actually came up with a series of tables of ideal weight to
height ratios for various sports. Interesting that you couldn't just
keep gaining mass and get better. There is a limit where the mass slows
you down or causes anatomical difficulties.

This is obvious in the olympic lifts where it is common for guys to get
to big and have problems. For example - big biceps make it difficult to
rack the bar for a clean.
>
> "Keep On Running, The Science OF Training And Performance" stresses the
> importance of weightlifting as a means of increasing contractile
> protein.
>
> >
> > The pump is simply blood in the muscle.
>
> How do you know?
>

Except for your wild theory all the scientific books I've read suggest
that a short term effect of resistance training is more blood pumped to
the tissue requiring the nutrition. Frankly I'll take Zatsiosky and
other scientific experts opinion on that matter over yours.

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting 

"Hobbes" <khobman800.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:khobman800-FD65C2.16315413072005@corp.supernews.com...
<<snipped>>
>
> Except for your wild theory all the scientific books I've read suggest
> that a short term effect of resistance training is more blood pumped to
> the tissue requiring the nutrition. Frankly I'll take Zatsiosky and
> other scientific experts opinion on that matter over yours.
>
> --
> Keith


Ah, screw those scientific quacks.....ask THE authority.....What would Pavel
say????

;- >
 >> Stay informed about: Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 01:14:54 GMT, "Spammers_Should_Be_Shot"
<NoSpam.RemoveThis@MyEmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Hobbes" <khobman800.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:khobman800-FD65C2.16315413072005@corp.supernews.com...
><<snipped>>
>>
>> Except for your wild theory all the scientific books I've read suggest
>> that a short term effect of resistance training is more blood pumped to
>> the tissue requiring the nutrition. Frankly I'll take Zatsiosky and
>> other scientific experts opinion on that matter over yours.
>>
>> --
>> Keith
>
>
>Ah, screw those scientific quacks.....ask THE authority.....What would Pavel
>say????
>
>;- >
>

And more relevantly to _this_ group, what would Steve Friedes say? I
get the feeling Steve is to Pavel as the pope is to God
(theoretically).
 >> Stay informed about: Bodybuilding to improve power/olympic lifting