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Markus

External


Since: Oct 19, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:55 pm
Post subject: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!)
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>misc, others (more info?)

Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being unfit, not
toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.

I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink much
(5-6 pints). I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely getting no
more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000. a
day.

I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5 foot 7
and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500' calories
recomended for the average guy.

So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and a
half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat after,
but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping the
resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at the moment.
After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for 20
minutes. I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines, doing
2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually upping the
weight as I can.

I feel a lot fitter, and have some definition on most parts of my body,
apart from my belly/gut; it's still the same and sticks out majorly.
I've avoided intense situps since i'm told I should concentrate on
loosing bodyfat and just do say, 20-30 situps every other day to keep
the muscle underneath toned...

Does anyone have any advice on what I can change to what I'm doing
right now? and how I can get rid of my sticky out gut (ugh).

Thanks!

Feels good to be exercising at long last though!

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Curt James

External


Since: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 1479



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Markus wrote:
[...]

> I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with
> sweat after, but not so tried I can't go on.

And so you should!

Have you ever read what competition bodybuilders often do while
cutting? I mean so far as cardio is concerned. Just 20 minutes is not
what I'd call very serious.

I'm happily carting my Buddha belly around just now, but if I was
making a run for more Robert Schuh-like dimensions - he of the 22-inch
waist - well, I'd be certain to do a.m. and p.m. cardio for at least 30
minutes each session.

[...]

> Does anyone have any advice on what I can change to what
> I'm doing right now? and how I can get rid of my sticky out
> gut (ugh).

Increase the cardio. Eat smaller meals more often, say five or six
meals a day. And, yes, check out http://theabsdiet.com/ or pick up the
book if it's available in your area.

Congratulations on returning to exercise. Best of luck with your
workouts.

--
Curt

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Shute

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Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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DZ

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Since: Oct 20, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:48 am
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bully

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Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:02 am
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Shute wrote:
> On 19 Oct 2006 13:55:26 -0700, "Markus" <markus4412.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being unfit,
>> not toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.
>>
>> I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink
>> much (5-6 pints). I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
>> sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
>> completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely getting
>> no more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000.
>> a day.

How many grams of protein per day? How much fat?



>>
>> I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5 foot
>> 7 and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500' calories
>> recomended for the average guy.
>>
>> So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and a
>> half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval

Which high setting; most bikes have a setting relating to levels?


> settings on an
>> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat after,
>> but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping the
>> resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at the
>> moment. After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for
>> 20 minutes.

To be honest with you, that's quite feeble. I'm just on my way back to
building my aerobic endurance, and looking at my log I did 3.5k a few weeks
ago in 13mins 38secs.

> I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines,
>> doing 2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually
>> upping the weight as I can.
>>
>> I feel a lot fitter, and have some definition on most parts of my
>> body, apart from my belly/gut; it's still the same and sticks out
>> majorly. I've avoided intense situps since i'm told I should
>> concentrate on loosing bodyfat and just do say, 20-30 situps every
>> other day to keep the muscle underneath toned...
>>
>> Does anyone have any advice on what I can change to what I'm doing
>> right now? and how I can get rid of my sticky out gut (ugh).
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Feels good to be exercising at long last though!
>
> This might not help with the weight but I would change a couple of
> things in your routine. I would do the weight training before the
> cardio workout.

Absolutely agree with this. Do weights when you energy is highest.

> I think you will get more out of it if you are fresh
> whereas the cardio it doesn't really matter. I also wouldn't skip
> meals. You can keep it light and just eat an apple or something if you
> want.
>
> Everything else looks o.k. Have you been tracking body fat
> percentage and how much your weigh? On men the beer belly can be the
> last thing to go. It may be gradually shrinking but you just haven't
> noticed yet. If it really isn't working try adding another ten
> minutes of cardio each day.

Yeah right; you really think another 40 kcals per day is gonna make that
much difference. That's 30 weeks to lose another pound of lard!!!

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) 
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Steve Freides

External


Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 2032



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Markus" <markus4412.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1161291326.505134.182360@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being unfit,
> not
> toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.
>
> I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink
> much
> (5-6 pints).

5-6 pints at a sitting qualifies as "don't drink much?" For me, that
would be a _lot_ of beer. I think a pint or two qualifies as not much.

> I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
> sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
> completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely getting
> no
> more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000. a
> day.
>
> I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5 foot 7
> and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500' calories
> recomended for the average guy.
>
> So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and a
> half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat after,
> but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping the
> resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at the
> moment.
> After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for 20
> minutes. I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines, doing
> 2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually upping the
> weight as I can.

High resistance on an exercise bike is not the best use of your time in
achieving overall fitness. Put the bike on a lower resistance - I use
the lowest or nearly the lowest setting - and work on a smooth, fast
"spin" type of cadence of at least 90 rpm, even 100 rpm or more is good.
You will get healthy knees and good cardio benefit this way. Then spend
your energy with weights to work against resistance.

> I feel a lot fitter, and have some definition on most parts of my
> body,
> apart from my belly/gut; it's still the same and sticks out majorly.
> I've avoided intense situps since i'm told I should concentrate on
> loosing bodyfat and just do say, 20-30 situps every other day to keep
> the muscle underneath toned...

Any resistance exercise is going to be helpful to you at this point -
just keep experimenting and finding what you enjoy doing. When you
can, squats and/or deadlifts will give your midsection a good workout,
too.

> Does anyone have any advice on what I can change to what I'm doing
> right now? and how I can get rid of my sticky out gut (ugh).

It sounds to me like you're doing pretty well. Keep paying attention to
how you feel and remember that the best exercise program is the one you
actually do - don't overtrain, don't get injured, don't force yourself
to do things that are completely unpleasant to you, and enjoy the
results you will be getting.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> Thanks!
>
> Feels good to be exercising at long last though!
>
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Shute

External


Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bully

External


Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Steve Freides wrote:
> "Markus" <markus4412.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1161291326.505134.182360@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being unfit,
>> not
>> toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.
>>
>> I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink
>> much
>> (5-6 pints).
>
> 5-6 pints at a sitting qualifies as "don't drink much?" For me, that
> would be a _lot_ of beer. I think a pint or two qualifies as not
> much.
>> I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
>> sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
>> completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely getting
>> no
>> more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000. a
>> day.
>>
>> I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5 foot
>> 7 and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500' calories
>> recomended for the average guy.
>>
>> So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and a
>> half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
>> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat after,
>> but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping the
>> resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at the
>> moment.
>> After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for 20
>> minutes. I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines,
>> doing 2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually
>> upping the weight as I can.
>
> High resistance on an exercise bike is not the best use of your time
> in achieving overall fitness. Put the bike on a lower resistance - I
> use the lowest or nearly the lowest setting - and work on a smooth,
> fast "spin" type of cadence of at least 90 rpm, even 100 rpm or more
> is good. You will get healthy knees and good cardio benefit this way.

WTF? So lowest resistance, 90rpm? What about heart rate; don't you think
that has some bearing on the effectiveness of the exercise????

[...]


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) 
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Steve Freides

External


Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 2032



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Bully" <bully1 RemoveThis @proteinbars.co.ok> wrote in message
news:4ps8vqFkfjbfU1@individual.net...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> "Markus" <markus4412 RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:1161291326.505134.182360@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being unfit,
>>> not
>>> toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.
>>>
>>> I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink
>>> much
>>> (5-6 pints).
>>
>> 5-6 pints at a sitting qualifies as "don't drink much?" For me, that
>> would be a _lot_ of beer. I think a pint or two qualifies as not
>> much.
>>> I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
>>> sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
>>> completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely getting
>>> no
>>> more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000. a
>>> day.
>>>
>>> I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5 foot
>>> 7 and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500'
>>> calories
>>> recomended for the average guy.
>>>
>>> So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and a
>>> half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
>>> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat after,
>>> but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping the
>>> resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at the
>>> moment.
>>> After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for 20
>>> minutes. I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines,
>>> doing 2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually
>>> upping the weight as I can.
>>
>> High resistance on an exercise bike is not the best use of your time
>> in achieving overall fitness. Put the bike on a lower resistance - I
>> use the lowest or nearly the lowest setting - and work on a smooth,
>> fast "spin" type of cadence of at least 90 rpm, even 100 rpm or more
>> is good. You will get healthy knees and good cardio benefit this way.
>
> WTF? So lowest resistance, 90rpm? What about heart rate; don't you
> think that has some bearing on the effectiveness of the exercise????

I'm a long time bikie and I can assure you that a few minutes of 90-100
rpm pedalling will see your heart rate rise quite a bit, even with no
resistance. You are invited to try 10 minutes of 95 rpm and report back
if you don't believe me.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> [...]
>
>
> --
> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
>
>
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DZ

External


Since: Oct 20, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bully

External


Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Steve Freides wrote:
> "Bully" <bully1.TakeThisOut@proteinbars.co.ok> wrote in message
> news:4ps8vqFkfjbfU1@individual.net...
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>> "Markus" <markus4412.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:1161291326.505134.182360@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being unfit,
>>>> not
>>>> toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.
>>>>
>>>> I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink
>>>> much
>>>> (5-6 pints).
>>>
>>> 5-6 pints at a sitting qualifies as "don't drink much?" For me,
>>> that would be a _lot_ of beer. I think a pint or two qualifies as
>>> not much.
>>>> I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
>>>> sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
>>>> completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely
>>>> getting no
>>>> more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000. a
>>>> day.
>>>>
>>>> I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5
>>>> foot 7 and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500'
>>>> calories
>>>> recomended for the average guy.
>>>>
>>>> So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and a
>>>> half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
>>>> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat
>>>> after, but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping
>>>> the resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at the
>>>> moment.
>>>> After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for 20
>>>> minutes. I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines,
>>>> doing 2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually
>>>> upping the weight as I can.
>>>
>>> High resistance on an exercise bike is not the best use of your time
>>> in achieving overall fitness. Put the bike on a lower resistance -
>>> I use the lowest or nearly the lowest setting - and work on a
>>> smooth, fast "spin" type of cadence of at least 90 rpm, even 100
>>> rpm or more is good. You will get healthy knees and good cardio
>>> benefit this way.
>>
>> WTF? So lowest resistance, 90rpm? What about heart rate; don't you
>> think that has some bearing on the effectiveness of the exercise????
>
> I'm a long time bikie and I can assure you that a few minutes of
> 90-100 rpm pedalling will see your heart rate rise quite a bit, even
> with no resistance.

So, let's get this straight. 3 mins of 95RPM, no resistance????

> You are invited to try 10 minutes of 95 rpm and
> report back if you don't believe me.

Oh, 10 minutes then?

>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bully
>> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>>
>> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
>> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) 
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Steve Freides

External


Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 2032



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> wrote in message
news:4pt30uFkf93kU1@individual.net...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> "Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> wrote in message
>> news:4ps8vqFkfjbfU1@individual.net...
>>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>>> "Markus" <markus4412.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:1161291326.505134.182360@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Hi; about a month back I decided to do something about being
>>>>> unfit,
>>>>> not
>>>>> toned/muscled and having a saggy beer belly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've cut down my drinking to once a week and even then don't drink
>>>>> much
>>>>> (5-6 pints).
>>>>
>>>> 5-6 pints at a sitting qualifies as "don't drink much?" For me,
>>>> that would be a _lot_ of beer. I think a pint or two qualifies as
>>>> not much.
>>>>> I will eat musli/cerial for breakfast, and then a
>>>>> sandwich or salad for lunch, and every other day will skip dinner
>>>>> completely, and when I do eat in the evenings i'm definitely
>>>>> getting no
>>>>> more than 2000 calories a day. When I don't it's more like 1000.
>>>>> a day.
>>>>>
>>>>> I drink a lot of water and am never that hungry, I'm 24, only 5
>>>>> foot 7 and weigh around 11stone so I doubt I even need the '2500'
>>>>> calories
>>>>> recomended for the average guy.
>>>>>
>>>>> So far, ever other day i've been in the gym for about an hour and
>>>>> a
>>>>> half. I do 20 minutes on the high/uphill/interval settings on an
>>>>> exercise bike, and i'm pretty nackered and pouring with sweat
>>>>> after, but not so tried I can't go on. I've been gradually upping
>>>>> the resistance but keeping to 20 minutes. I cover about 8km at
>>>>> the
>>>>> moment.
>>>>> After this i'll hit a rowing machine and do about 3.5km for 20
>>>>> minutes. I'll then use about 5-6 different resistance machines,
>>>>> doing 2 sets of 10 reps on each, and again have been gradually
>>>>> upping the weight as I can.
>>>>
>>>> High resistance on an exercise bike is not the best use of your
>>>> time
>>>> in achieving overall fitness. Put the bike on a lower resistance -
>>>> I use the lowest or nearly the lowest setting - and work on a
>>>> smooth, fast "spin" type of cadence of at least 90 rpm, even 100
>>>> rpm or more is good. You will get healthy knees and good cardio
>>>> benefit this way.
>>>
>>> WTF? So lowest resistance, 90rpm? What about heart rate; don't you
>>> think that has some bearing on the effectiveness of the exercise????
>>
>> I'm a long time bikie and I can assure you that a few minutes of
>> 90-100 rpm pedalling will see your heart rate rise quite a bit, even
>> with no resistance.
>
> So, let's get this straight. 3 mins of 95RPM, no resistance????
>
>> You are invited to try 10 minutes of 95 rpm and
>> report back if you don't believe me.
>
> Oh, 10 minutes then?

Yes.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bully
>>> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>>>
>>> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
>>> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
>
>
>
> --
> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
>
>
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Shute

External


Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:14 am
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DZ

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Since: Oct 21, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:50 am
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Bully

External


Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:35 am
Post subject: Re: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Shute wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:02:32 +0100, "Bully" <bully1.TakeThisOut@proteinbars.co.ok>
> wrote:
>
>>> Everything else looks o.k. Have you been tracking body fat
>>> percentage and how much your weigh? On men the beer belly can be
>>> the last thing to go. It may be gradually shrinking but you just
>>> haven't noticed yet. If it really isn't working try adding another
>>> ten minutes of cardio each day.
>>
>> Yeah right; you really think another 40 kcals per day is gonna make
>> that much difference. That's 30 weeks to lose another pound of
>> lard!!!
>
> Well I can burn 140 calories in 10 minutes.

How do you know this?

> I think that can make difference.

> Besides I don't think he is doing anything wrong unless
> he is just strutting along doing the cardio.

He is. I had already pointed that out!

> His body is resisting
> and I think changing any factor could switch him toward burning fat.
> Once during my weight loss I had switched to a 4 day workout. For two
> weeks I stopped losing weight until I switched back. That doesn't
> make any sense but that is what happened. The body doesn't always do
> the logical thing.



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: Please help a beginner(!) (get rid of my gut!) 
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