heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book?

I have read often that carrying weights on your ankles is a bad idea
(tends to shorten your stride, cause your footfall to go funny,
decreases the distance you'll walk, joint injuries etc) and that seems
reasonable to me.

However I don't see this as being the case for moving weights on wrists
or in hands. Can you present any evidence to support that its a bad
idea?
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

by saying 'moving weights' I'm just refering to the practice of
heavyhands exercise, specifically the walking variations are my
interest. This means holding DB's in your hands while you
pump/curl/lift/press/etc through large ROM, using short or long levers.
You vary tempo, levers & ROM according to how you you feel (current
energy, soreness, heartrate etc).

If you have a problem with adding weight to exercise, i think you're in
the wrong newsgroup
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

Try to stay focussed - you are introducing a new topic by raising the
issue of running with weights. I agree with you that it is not a good
idea. As Rick Gerwin said,

"My point was that running--even slow running-- is already a
high-intensity
activity. Someone who has the ability to run does not need to increase
their
aerobic intensity by adding arm swinging. They are either already at an

optimum training pace or they can increased intensity far more easily
by
just speeding up a litttle. The whole idea of heavyhands is primarily
to
turn a low-intensity activity (walking) into a high-intensity activity
without having to resort to running. There is no reason to subject
oneself
to the increased injury risk of significantly altering form by adding
exaggerated arm motions to running. If you want the *total body*
experience,
heavy hands walking is more than adequate. Trying to combine that arm
movement with running is possible--just pointless."
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

On 30 Jul 2005 19:43:18 -0700, yoko.guruma.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:

>I have read often that carrying weights on your ankles is a bad idea
>(tends to shorten your stride, cause your footfall to go funny,
>decreases the distance you'll walk, joint injuries etc) and that seems
>reasonable to me.
>
>However I don't see this as being the case for moving weights on wrists
>or in hands. Can you present any evidence to support that its a bad
>idea?

It's the added weight that causes the problems. I have no idea what
you mean by "movong weights", but it doesn't matter, added weight is
added weight.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

On 30 Jul 2005 20:19:05 -0700, yoko.guruma DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:

>by saying 'moving weights' I'm just refering to the practice of
>heavyhands exercise, specifically the walking variations are my
>interest. This means holding DB's in your hands while you
>pump/curl/lift/press/etc through large ROM, using short or long levers.
> You vary tempo, levers & ROM according to how you you feel (current
>energy, soreness, heartrate etc).
>
>If you have a problem with adding weight to exercise, i think you're in
>the wrong newsgroup

I train with weights, and I run 9 miles a day, but I'm not stupid
enough to do both at once. I also eat, and poop, but the same rule
applys. Think about it...

TBR
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

On 30 Jul 2005 20:47:34 -0700, yoko.guruma RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:

>Try to stay focussed - you are introducing a new topic by raising the
>issue of running with weights. I agree with you that it is not a good
>idea. As Rick Gerwin said,
>
>"My point was that running--even slow running-- is already a
>high-intensity
>activity. Someone who has the ability to run does not need to increase
>their
>aerobic intensity by adding arm swinging. They are either already at an
>
>optimum training pace or they can increased intensity far more easily
>by
>just speeding up a litttle. The whole idea of heavyhands is primarily
>to
>turn a low-intensity activity (walking) into a high-intensity activity
>without having to resort to running. There is no reason to subject
>oneself
>to the increased injury risk of significantly altering form by adding
>exaggerated arm motions to running. If you want the *total body*
>experience,
>heavy hands walking is more than adequate. Trying to combine that arm
>movement with running is possible--just pointless."

I agree. So why not just run instead of walking? Running in of itself
carrys risks of injury, but not nearly as much as walking with weights
on does. The problem with walking with weights is the added weight on
the joints. They simply are not designed to carry 10lbs on the wrists
or ankles, and it will destroy/injure them.

TBR
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

yoko.guruma.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:

> "Use of small hand weights during aerobics
> significantly increases energy expenditure".
>
> According to the Heavyhands book & Clarence Bass
> (www.cbass.com/DESKOF.HTM) there is clear evidence and good
> explanations to the contrary.

You guys have to learn to read the small print.

'Significantly' is the key word here.

And, these dumbass females thinks 'significantly' means 'magical' or
perhaps double the caloric expenditure. It simply is not true.
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

yoko.guruma.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> In the files section of the Supertraining groups there are some pages
> scanned from the 'Facts and Fallacies of Fitness' book. In the list
> of myths one of them is, "Use of small hand weights during aerobics
> significantly increases energy expenditure".
>
> According to the Heavyhands book & Clarence Bass
> (www.cbass.com/DESKOF.HTM) there is clear evidence and good
> explanations to the contrary.
>
> Does anyone have this Facts/Fallacies book and/or can explain their
> reasoning?

Hand weights make you do about the same amount of extra work that just being
that much heavier would. Even if you're carrying a couple of 5 kilo hand
weights (which is heavy for that sort of thing) that's only going to make
you do about 10% more work. It'll probably feel a lot harder because your
arms will get tired, but that doesn't mean you're actually using much more
energy.

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

On 2005-07-31, Peter Allen <peteronusenet.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> yoko.guruma.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>> In the files section of the Supertraining groups there are some pages
>> scanned from the 'Facts and Fallacies of Fitness' book. In the list
>> of myths one of them is, "Use of small hand weights during aerobics
>> significantly increases energy expenditure".
>>
>> According to the Heavyhands book & Clarence Bass
>> (www.cbass.com/DESKOF.HTM) there is clear evidence and good
>> explanations to the contrary.
>>
>> Does anyone have this Facts/Fallacies book and/or can explain their
>> reasoning?
>
> Hand weights make you do about the same amount of extra work that just being
> that much heavier would. Even if you're carrying a couple of 5 kilo hand
> weights (which is heavy for that sort of thing) that's only going to make
> you do about 10% more work. It'll probably feel a lot harder because your
> arms will get tired, but that doesn't mean you're actually using much more
> energy.

Doesn't quite work like that. There are studies that have looked at the
effects of hand weights, and it does increase the cost by more than in
proportion to the weight.

Not all weight is created equal. If you attach the weight to your hands, you
do extra work accelerating the weight back and forth. You would do slightly
less work if you attached the weight to your upper arms (since the weight is
further up, not as much torque required to move it), and even less work if
you wore a backpack (which doesn't get accelerated back and forth at all)

Having said that, using hand weights during aerobics is a really stupid idea.
The problem is that if you carry enough weight for it to increase the energy
cost by a large enough degree to be useful from a weight loss perspective,
your arms will get tired so quickly that you will be forced to terminate the
workout after a very brief duration, whereas without the handweights, you
would have the option of either running faster, or running longer.

A better way to involve upper body muscles in cardio is to select an exercise
that efficiently uses these muscles (e.g. rowing machine or elliptical). This
enables one to mobilise the larger muscle masses in the upper body (pecs,
lats) without placing excessive burden on the smaller, weaker muscles (biceps,
triceps, forearms)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

On 2005-07-31, yoko.guruma DeleteThis @gmail.com <yoko.guruma DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> I have read often that carrying weights on your ankles is a bad idea
> (tends to shorten your stride, cause your footfall to go funny,
> decreases the distance you'll walk, joint injuries etc) and that seems
> reasonable to me.
>
> However I don't see this as being the case for moving weights on wrists
> or in hands. Can you present any evidence to support that its a bad
> idea?

During walking, I doubt that it makes a whole lot of difference.

During running, it adds a substantial source of repetitive stress to the
upper body, and also increases your mass which increases injury risk in a
similar manner to gaining weight.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

On 2005-07-31, yoko.guruma RemoveThis @gmail.com <yoko.guruma RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Try to stay focussed - you are introducing a new topic by raising the
> issue of running with weights. I agree with you that it is not a good
> idea. As Rick Gerwin said,
[snip]

Excellent point, and the same argument applies to walking -- one can
walk on an incline, which is a safe and effective way to increase the
intensity. Indeed, it is much more effective than using hand weights.

Some of my colleagues tested a number of subjects, and for the most
part, untrained subjects have trouble maintaining 4mph on a 15% incline.
Someone who is comfortable doing that will have very little difficulty
running.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

walking is far more convenient with my wife pushing a pram filled with
two kids, and me with a dog on a leash connected to my belt. Plus,
everytime my wife runs she develops shin-splints; walking is more
injury-free & therefore sustainable.

The problem is how to raise the intensity of walking so that it becomes
more valuable for exercise. Heavyhands would seem to be one way to do
so -- despite your assertions, I'm not convinced that it'll destroy or
injure joints. Haven't you ever done manual labour? I did some
bricklaying recently, and spent all day long time lifting & heaving
stuff ... some people do that for a job all their lives. In
comparison, a 20-minute heavy-hands walk 3x a week is nothing at all.
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book? 

This thread has gotten a bit mixed-up ... we're all variously talking
about walking, running, cardio value etc, getting jumbled up. Its
just as much my fault too -- i don't really care about doing aerobics;
i'm mainly interested in HH for walking.
 >> Stay informed about: heavyhands vs. Facts and Fallacies of Fitness book?