Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train..

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>
> Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165261663.131740.290400@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > (top posting fixed)
> > >
> > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1165188890.825680.320000@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:1165077289.748144.74560@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > Richard wrote:
> > > > > > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:1165006698.911101.267930@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I was just thinking about the recent comments on the
growth
> > of
> > > > my
> > > > > > biceps
> > > > > > > > > > over the last year and I remembered something. I have
no
> > > > Thyroid
> > > > > > gland
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > use hormone replacement in the form of Thyroxin (which
is
> > T4
> > > > only).
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > read that Thyroid hormones have some effect on just
about
> > every
> > > > cell
> > > > > > > > type in
> > > > > > > > > > the body but especially on the slow-twitch muscle type.
I
> > have
> > > > also
> > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > > that Thyroid hormones play a major role in the healing
of
> > muscle
> > > > > > tears
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > damage.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Does the role of Thyroid hormones in the healing of
muscle
> > > > damage
> > > > > > > > include
> > > > > > > > > > micro-tears as in building muscle. If yes, and my levels
are
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > higher
> > > > > > > > > > end of the range, could this contribute to building
muscle
> > at a
> > > > > > faster
> > > > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > > > > than normal? I am also thinking in general about the
> > possible
> > > > > > effects
> > > > > > > > on my
> > > > > > > > > > training and muscle development. Any thoughts?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Steph.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thyroid hormones do play a role in healing and muscle
> > building,
> > > > but
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > the way you're proposing. If your thyroid hormone levels
are
> > too
> > > > low,
> > > > > > > > > you may have some trouble building muscle, and you may
have
> > > > trouble
> > > > > > > > > losing fat. If your thyroid levels are too high, you'll
> > generally
> > > > be
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > an overall catabolic state in which you lose both muscle
and
> > fat -
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > > might be able to maintain muscle if you're lucky, but
gaining
> > > > muscle
> > > > > > > > > while hyperthyroid (regardless of whether the
hyperthyroidism
> > is
> > > > > > > > > endogenous or exogenous) is damn near impossible without
> > > > > > pharmaceutical
> > > > > > > > > assistance of a different type. If your thyroid levels are
> > within
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > range that's optimal for you, then with proper diet and
> > exercise,
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > > can gain muscle at whatever rate is normal for you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > IOW there is no level of thyoid hormones that would allow
you
> > to
> > > > gain
> > > > > > > > > muscle at an accelerated rate. Your massive gain was, IMO,
due
> > to
> > > > > > > > > simple measurement error.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I gained plenty of muscle while my FT3 was way too high (I
was
> > > > hyper)
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > 100% guarantee it wasn't measurement error. There are
exceptions
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > rules.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, there are a few exceptions to that particular "rule". In
any
> > > > case,
> > > > > > > you gained muscle in spite of your T3 being too high, not
because
> > of
> > > > > > > it. Again, there's no level of thyroid hormones that allows
one to
> > > > gain
> > > > > > > muscle at an *accelerated* rate. The gain Steph claims is
absurd.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you think geek_girl is talking about me or another Staph? I
only
> > say
> > > > > > this because geek_girl talks about Staph in the 3rd person?
> > > > >
> > > > > Having trouble following the conversation, are you? Geek_girl was
> > > > > referring to Staph in the 3rd person because geek_girl was
responding
> > > > > to Richard. Staph should have already known this, but apparently
Staph
> > > > > is a little slow.
> > > > >
> > > > Staph is having trouble following life today. Staph is sorry for the
> > > > inconvenience. Hey there's another symptom - cloudiness and/or
> > stupidity. Or
> > > > was I born with that - can't seem to remember.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I was under the impression that your thyroid condition was being
> > > adequately treated, in which case you should no longer be having
> > > hypothyroid brain fog. Therefore, I'm going to have to assume that
> > > either you were born confused, or you're under the influence of some
> > > drug(s) other than those prescribed for your thyroid condition.
> > >
> >
> > It is being treated but I don't have a thyroid condition because you'd
> > probably need a thyroid gland for that. It was removed 18 years ago. I
> > certainly do still get brain fog. I still experience many symptoms of
both
> > hypo and hyper. This is not unusual. Most of the time the symptoms are
minor
> > but from time to time, they are more prevalent. I just had a brain fog
cycle
> > that lasted for about 4 days. It was very difficult to remember words,
> > places, names etc I know I knew. As I said, being born with a tendency
for
> > that only compounds the problem!
> >
> > peace.
>
> Hmm. I think I'd call not having a thyroid "a thyroid condition".
>
> Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> the brain fog.

Armor has T3 in it and "piggy bits" (T2 and other "stuff") made from
desicated pig thyroid. Some people swear by it in the alt.support.thyroid
group. Careful with other forms of T3 though, unless its time-released. Many
people have died of heart attacks on that potent stuff. FYI.

Richard
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

Richard wrote:
> "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> >

> >
> > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> > the brain fog.
>
> Armor has T3 in it and "piggy bits" (T2 and other "stuff") made from
> desicated pig thyroid. Some people swear by it in the alt.support.thyroid
> group. Careful with other forms of T3 though, unless its time-released. Many
> people have died of heart attacks on that potent stuff. FYI.
>
> Richard

Yep, I take Armour. It's good stuff. I'm not sure about T3 killing a
lot of people, unless you're referring to the old practice of using
thyroid hormones to treat obesity in euthyroid patients. That's a bad
idea. But in someone who actually has low T3, a small dose of Cytomel
with a gradual increase and frequent observation for hyper
signs/symptoms shouldn't be a problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> >

>
> > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> > the brain fog.
> >
>
> I have asked my endo about T3 but he insists that my T4:T3 ratio is fine and
> that it would make no difference. He would not prescribe it. I did get an
> extra 400mcg out of that visit though. It seems that in Australia, doctors
> are very reluctant to prescribe T3. I have a friend (one of many) with a
> Thyroid condition who eventually found an Endo who would prescribe T3. I
> don't know about other countries, but GP's are not allowed to prescribe
> Thyroid hormones. I've tried that avenue too.

Has he actually tested free T4 and T3? Have you seen the results?

Most doctors here won't prescribe T3 in any form either - not that
they're not allowed to; they're just scared of it. I had to do a lot of
work to find doctors who would prescribe Armour at all, let alone in
the amount that I need to feel "normal" (where "normal" means "how I
felt before my thyroid went wacky", which is by no means "normal
normal".)
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

Richard wrote:
> "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165343572.446035.304070@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > Richard wrote:
> > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> > > > the brain fog.
> > >
> > > Armor has T3 in it and "piggy bits" (T2 and other "stuff") made from
> > > desicated pig thyroid. Some people swear by it in the
> alt.support.thyroid
> > > group. Careful with other forms of T3 though, unless its time-released.
> Many
> > > people have died of heart attacks on that potent stuff. FYI.
> > >
> > > Richard
> >
> > Yep, I take Armour. It's good stuff. I'm not sure about T3 killing a
> > lot of people, unless you're referring to the old practice of using
> > thyroid hormones to treat obesity in euthyroid patients. That's a bad
> > idea. But in someone who actually has low T3, a small dose of Cytomel
> > with a gradual increase and frequent observation for hyper
> > signs/symptoms shouldn't be a problem.
>
> You can read about the heart attack stuff on Wilson's Thyroid web site. Its
> been a few years since I read up on it but some of his patients died. Maybe
> I read it on quackwatch.org

Well, Wilson is a freaking moron who invented a disease, named it after
himself, and used it as an excuse to give T3 to euthyroid patients. So
yeah, I'd say you most likely read about it on quackwatch rather than
Wilson's own site.
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165261663.131740.290400@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> (top posting fixed)
>
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165188890.825680.320000@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1165077289.748144.74560@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > Richard wrote:
> > > > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:1165006698.911101.267930@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was just thinking about the recent comments on the growth
of
> > my
> > > > biceps
> > > > > > > > over the last year and I remembered something. I have no
> > Thyroid
> > > > gland
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > use hormone replacement in the form of Thyroxin (which is
T4
> > only).
> > > > I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > read that Thyroid hormones have some effect on just about
every
> > cell
> > > > > > type in
> > > > > > > > the body but especially on the slow-twitch muscle type. I
have
> > also
> > > > read
> > > > > > > > that Thyroid hormones play a major role in the healing of
muscle
> > > > tears
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Does the role of Thyroid hormones in the healing of muscle
> > damage
> > > > > > include
> > > > > > > > micro-tears as in building muscle. If yes, and my levels are
in
> > the
> > > > > > higher
> > > > > > > > end of the range, could this contribute to building muscle
at a
> > > > faster
> > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > > than normal? I am also thinking in general about the
possible
> > > > effects
> > > > > > on my
> > > > > > > > training and muscle development. Any thoughts?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Steph.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thyroid hormones do play a role in healing and muscle
building,
> > but
> > > > not
> > > > > > > the way you're proposing. If your thyroid hormone levels are
too
> > low,
> > > > > > > you may have some trouble building muscle, and you may have
> > trouble
> > > > > > > losing fat. If your thyroid levels are too high, you'll
generally
> > be
> > > > in
> > > > > > > an overall catabolic state in which you lose both muscle and
fat -
> > you
> > > > > > > might be able to maintain muscle if you're lucky, but gaining
> > muscle
> > > > > > > while hyperthyroid (regardless of whether the hyperthyroidism
is
> > > > > > > endogenous or exogenous) is damn near impossible without
> > > > pharmaceutical
> > > > > > > assistance of a different type. If your thyroid levels are
within
> > the
> > > > > > > range that's optimal for you, then with proper diet and
exercise,
> > you
> > > > > > > can gain muscle at whatever rate is normal for you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > IOW there is no level of thyoid hormones that would allow you
to
> > gain
> > > > > > > muscle at an accelerated rate. Your massive gain was, IMO, due
to
> > > > > > > simple measurement error.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I gained plenty of muscle while my FT3 was way too high (I was
> > hyper)
> > > > and
> > > > > > 100% guarantee it wasn't measurement error. There are exceptions
to
> > the
> > > > > > rules.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, there are a few exceptions to that particular "rule". In any
> > case,
> > > > > you gained muscle in spite of your T3 being too high, not because
of
> > > > > it. Again, there's no level of thyroid hormones that allows one to
> > gain
> > > > > muscle at an *accelerated* rate. The gain Steph claims is absurd.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you think geek_girl is talking about me or another Staph? I only
say
> > > > this because geek_girl talks about Staph in the 3rd person?
> > >
> > > Having trouble following the conversation, are you? Geek_girl was
> > > referring to Staph in the 3rd person because geek_girl was responding
> > > to Richard. Staph should have already known this, but apparently Staph
> > > is a little slow.
> > >
> > Staph is having trouble following life today. Staph is sorry for the
> > inconvenience. Hey there's another symptom - cloudiness and/or
stupidity. Or
> > was I born with that - can't seem to remember.
> >
>
> I was under the impression that your thyroid condition was being
> adequately treated, in which case you should no longer be having
> hypothyroid brain fog. Therefore, I'm going to have to assume that
> either you were born confused, or you're under the influence of some
> drug(s) other than those prescribed for your thyroid condition.
>

It is being treated but I don't have a thyroid condition because you'd
probably need a thyroid gland for that. It was removed 18 years ago. I
certainly do still get brain fog. I still experience many symptoms of both
hypo and hyper. This is not unusual. Most of the time the symptoms are minor
but from time to time, they are more prevalent. I just had a brain fog cycle
that lasted for about 4 days. It was very difficult to remember words,
places, names etc I know I knew. As I said, being born with a tendency for
that only compounds the problem!

peace.
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165343572.446035.304070@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> Richard wrote:
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> > >
>
> > >
> > > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> > > the brain fog.
> >
> > Armor has T3 in it and "piggy bits" (T2 and other "stuff") made from
> > desicated pig thyroid. Some people swear by it in the
alt.support.thyroid
> > group. Careful with other forms of T3 though, unless its time-released.
Many
> > people have died of heart attacks on that potent stuff. FYI.
> >
> > Richard
>
> Yep, I take Armour. It's good stuff. I'm not sure about T3 killing a
> lot of people, unless you're referring to the old practice of using
> thyroid hormones to treat obesity in euthyroid patients. That's a bad
> idea. But in someone who actually has low T3, a small dose of Cytomel
> with a gradual increase and frequent observation for hyper
> signs/symptoms shouldn't be a problem.

You can read about the heart attack stuff on Wilson's Thyroid web site. Its
been a few years since I read up on it but some of his patients died. Maybe
I read it on quackwatch.org

Do you notice any big difference between regular T4 and Armour? How much of
a difference.. in terms of mental clarity and energy?

Richard
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
>
> Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165261663.131740.290400@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > (top posting fixed)
> > >
> > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1165188890.825680.320000@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:1165077289.748144.74560@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > Richard wrote:
> > > > > > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > > > news:1165006698.911101.267930@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I was just thinking about the recent comments on the
growth
> > of
> > > > my
> > > > > > biceps
> > > > > > > > > > over the last year and I remembered something. I have
no
> > > > Thyroid
> > > > > > gland
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > use hormone replacement in the form of Thyroxin (which
is
> > T4
> > > > only).
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > read that Thyroid hormones have some effect on just
about
> > every
> > > > cell
> > > > > > > > type in
> > > > > > > > > > the body but especially on the slow-twitch muscle type.
I
> > have
> > > > also
> > > > > > read
> > > > > > > > > > that Thyroid hormones play a major role in the healing
of
> > muscle
> > > > > > tears
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > damage.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Does the role of Thyroid hormones in the healing of
muscle
> > > > damage
> > > > > > > > include
> > > > > > > > > > micro-tears as in building muscle. If yes, and my levels
are
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > higher
> > > > > > > > > > end of the range, could this contribute to building
muscle
> > at a
> > > > > > faster
> > > > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > > > > than normal? I am also thinking in general about the
> > possible
> > > > > > effects
> > > > > > > > on my
> > > > > > > > > > training and muscle development. Any thoughts?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Steph.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thyroid hormones do play a role in healing and muscle
> > building,
> > > > but
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > the way you're proposing. If your thyroid hormone levels
are
> > too
> > > > low,
> > > > > > > > > you may have some trouble building muscle, and you may
have
> > > > trouble
> > > > > > > > > losing fat. If your thyroid levels are too high, you'll
> > generally
> > > > be
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > an overall catabolic state in which you lose both muscle
and
> > fat -
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > > might be able to maintain muscle if you're lucky, but
gaining
> > > > muscle
> > > > > > > > > while hyperthyroid (regardless of whether the
hyperthyroidism
> > is
> > > > > > > > > endogenous or exogenous) is damn near impossible without
> > > > > > pharmaceutical
> > > > > > > > > assistance of a different type. If your thyroid levels are
> > within
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > range that's optimal for you, then with proper diet and
> > exercise,
> > > > you
> > > > > > > > > can gain muscle at whatever rate is normal for you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > IOW there is no level of thyoid hormones that would allow
you
> > to
> > > > gain
> > > > > > > > > muscle at an accelerated rate. Your massive gain was, IMO,
due
> > to
> > > > > > > > > simple measurement error.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I gained plenty of muscle while my FT3 was way too high (I
was
> > > > hyper)
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > 100% guarantee it wasn't measurement error. There are
exceptions
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > rules.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, there are a few exceptions to that particular "rule". In
any
> > > > case,
> > > > > > > you gained muscle in spite of your T3 being too high, not
because
> > of
> > > > > > > it. Again, there's no level of thyroid hormones that allows
one to
> > > > gain
> > > > > > > muscle at an *accelerated* rate. The gain Steph claims is
absurd.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you think geek_girl is talking about me or another Staph? I
only
> > say
> > > > > > this because geek_girl talks about Staph in the 3rd person?
> > > > >
> > > > > Having trouble following the conversation, are you? Geek_girl was
> > > > > referring to Staph in the 3rd person because geek_girl was
responding
> > > > > to Richard. Staph should have already known this, but apparently
Staph
> > > > > is a little slow.
> > > > >
> > > > Staph is having trouble following life today. Staph is sorry for the
> > > > inconvenience. Hey there's another symptom - cloudiness and/or
> > stupidity. Or
> > > > was I born with that - can't seem to remember.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I was under the impression that your thyroid condition was being
> > > adequately treated, in which case you should no longer be having
> > > hypothyroid brain fog. Therefore, I'm going to have to assume that
> > > either you were born confused, or you're under the influence of some
> > > drug(s) other than those prescribed for your thyroid condition.
> > >
> >
> > It is being treated but I don't have a thyroid condition because you'd
> > probably need a thyroid gland for that. It was removed 18 years ago. I
> > certainly do still get brain fog. I still experience many symptoms of
both
> > hypo and hyper. This is not unusual. Most of the time the symptoms are
minor
> > but from time to time, they are more prevalent. I just had a brain fog
cycle
> > that lasted for about 4 days. It was very difficult to remember words,
> > places, names etc I know I knew. As I said, being born with a tendency
for
> > that only compounds the problem!
> >
> > peace.
>
> Hmm. I think I'd call not having a thyroid "a thyroid condition".
>

Sure. I suppose you could say the condition of my Thyroid is non-existence.

> Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> the brain fog.
>

I have asked my endo about T3 but he insists that my T4:T3 ratio is fine and
that it would make no difference. He would not prescribe it. I did get an
extra 400mcg out of that visit though. It seems that in Australia, doctors
are very reluctant to prescribe T3. I have a friend (one of many) with a
Thyroid condition who eventually found an Endo who would prescribe T3. I
don't know about other countries, but GP's are not allowed to prescribe
Thyroid hormones. I've tried that avenue too.
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"Stephan Carydakis" <steph777 RemoveThis @netspace.net.au> schreef:

>> Hmm. I think I'd call not having a thyroid "a thyroid condition".

> Sure. I suppose you could say the condition of my Thyroid is
> non-existence.

I guess its kinda like when your legs are amputated, and someone asks you
about those legs.

There is nothing wrong with them, i guess...

----
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165343846.355636.127730@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> > >
>
> >
> > > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> > > the brain fog.
> > >
> >
> > I have asked my endo about T3 but he insists that my T4:T3 ratio is fine
and
> > that it would make no difference. He would not prescribe it. I did get
an
> > extra 400mcg out of that visit though. It seems that in Australia,
doctors
> > are very reluctant to prescribe T3. I have a friend (one of many) with a
> > Thyroid condition who eventually found an Endo who would prescribe T3. I
> > don't know about other countries, but GP's are not allowed to prescribe
> > Thyroid hormones. I've tried that avenue too.
>
> Has he actually tested free T4 and T3? Have you seen the results?

Yes, I specifically ask for FT3 because this is not normally done. Some labs
wont do it so I have found one locally that will. On the last 3 blood tests
the FT4, FT3 and TSH ratios are all good. So it seems my body does convert
T4 into T3 at the correct ratio. That is why he wont prescribe T3. Any
thoughts?

>
> Most doctors here won't prescribe T3 in any form either - not that
> they're not allowed to; they're just scared of it. I had to do a lot of
> work to find doctors who would prescribe Armour at all, let alone in
> the amount that I need to feel "normal" (where "normal" means "how I
> felt before my thyroid went wacky", which is by no means "normal
> normal".)
>
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165343846.355636.127730@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> >
> > >
> > > > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help with
> > > > the brain fog.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have asked my endo about T3 but he insists that my T4:T3 ratio is fine
> and
> > > that it would make no difference. He would not prescribe it. I did get
> an
> > > extra 400mcg out of that visit though. It seems that in Australia,
> doctors
> > > are very reluctant to prescribe T3. I have a friend (one of many) with a
> > > Thyroid condition who eventually found an Endo who would prescribe T3. I
> > > don't know about other countries, but GP's are not allowed to prescribe
> > > Thyroid hormones. I've tried that avenue too.
> >
> > Has he actually tested free T4 and T3? Have you seen the results?
>
> Yes, I specifically ask for FT3 because this is not normally done. Some labs
> wont do it so I have found one locally that will. On the last 3 blood tests
> the FT4, FT3 and TSH ratios are all good. So it seems my body does convert
> T4 into T3 at the correct ratio. That is why he wont prescribe T3. Any
> thoughts?


I have a lot of thoughts, but I'll keep most of them to myself. I just
have a couple of questions for now: One, if your doctor thinks your T4
and T3 levels are fine, how does he explain your symptoms? And two, did
you have baseline tests done before you ever even started having
thyroid problems? If you didn't (and most people don't) then you have
no way of knowing what levels are normal for you.
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165421344.631601.87590@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165343846.355636.127730@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:1165289834.500828.98870@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Are you on T4 only? Have you ever tried taking T3? It might help
with
> > > > > the brain fog.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have asked my endo about T3 but he insists that my T4:T3 ratio is
fine
> > and
> > > > that it would make no difference. He would not prescribe it. I did
get
> > an
> > > > extra 400mcg out of that visit though. It seems that in Australia,
> > doctors
> > > > are very reluctant to prescribe T3. I have a friend (one of many)
with a
> > > > Thyroid condition who eventually found an Endo who would prescribe
T3. I
> > > > don't know about other countries, but GP's are not allowed to
prescribe
> > > > Thyroid hormones. I've tried that avenue too.
> > >
> > > Has he actually tested free T4 and T3? Have you seen the results?
> >
> > Yes, I specifically ask for FT3 because this is not normally done. Some
labs
> > wont do it so I have found one locally that will. On the last 3 blood
tests
> > the FT4, FT3 and TSH ratios are all good. So it seems my body does
convert
> > T4 into T3 at the correct ratio. That is why he wont prescribe T3. Any
> > thoughts?
>
>
> I have a lot of thoughts, but I'll keep most of them to myself. I just
> have a couple of questions for now: One, if your doctor thinks your T4
> and T3 levels are fine, how does he explain your symptoms? And two, did
> you have baseline tests done before you ever even started having
> thyroid problems? If you didn't (and most people don't) then you have
> no way of knowing what levels are normal for you.
>

re thoughts:good idea.

re symptoms: that's we he allowed me to take more T4

re baselines: No. But it seems being at the higher end of the spectrum is
where I feel best. I do think I may be a tad high at the moment. I went to
the GP today and asked for the usual with testosterone, blood sugar, liver
function and cholesterol added. It has been more than a year since my last
one apparently.
 >> Stay informed about: Effect of Thyroid hormones on muscle development and train.. 

"geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165077671.690705.86620@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > "geek_girl" <sarah.brilliant DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1165006698.911101.267930@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> > > Stephan Carydakis wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > I was just thinking about the recent comments on the growth of my
biceps
> > > > over the last year and I remembered something. I have no Thyroid
gland
> > and
> > > > use hormone replacement in the form of Thyroxin (which is T4 only).
I
> > have
> > > > read that Thyroid hormones have some effect on just about every cell
> > type in
> > > > the body but especially on the slow-twitch muscle type. I have also
read
> > > > that Thyroid hormones play a major role in the healing of muscle
tears
> > and
> > > > damage.
> > > >
> > > > Does the role of Thyroid hormones in the healing of muscle damage
> > include
> > > > micro-tears as in building muscle. If yes, and my levels are in the
> > higher
> > > > end of the range, could this contribute to building muscle at a
faster
> > rate
> > > > than normal? I am also thinking in general about the possible
effects
> > on my
> > > > training and muscle development. Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > Steph.
> > >
> > > Thyroid hormones do play a role in healing and muscle building, but
not
> > > the way you're proposing. If your thyroid hormone levels are too low,
> > > you may have some trouble building muscle, and you may have trouble
> > > losing fat. If your thyroid levels are too high, you'll generally be
in
> > > an overall catabolic state in which you lose both muscle and fat - you
> > > might be able to maintain muscle if you're lucky, but gaining muscle
> > > while hyperthyroid (regardless of whether the hyperthyroidism is
> > > endogenous or exogenous) is damn near impossible without
pharmaceutical
> > > assistance of a different type. If your thyroid levels are within the
> > > range that's optimal for you, then with proper diet and exercise, you
> > > can gain muscle at whatever rate is normal for you.
> > >
> >
> > I've had to adjust my levels for over 18 years so I know about the
effects
> > of high/low hormone levels.
>
> Well, clearly you're not familiar with all of them, because you were
> asking if your high levels would allow you to gain muscle at an
> accelerated rate.
>

You truly have made an astonishing observation. Well done. Have a golden
star for your excercise book and keep up the good work.

> > > IOW there is no level of thyoid hormones that would allow you to gain
> > > muscle at an accelerated rate. Your massive gain was, IMO, due to
> > > simple measurement error.
> > >
> >
> > Even though my initial bicep measurement is doubtful, I can confirm a 3
inch
> > gain in 6 months. While this is not apparently ridiculous, it's good.
So
> > what you are saying is that being hyper will not in anyway compliment
weight
> > training, rather, it will hinder muscle growth?
>
> Right, being hyperthyroid won't help with muscle growth, and is likely
> to hinder. You could conceivably gain muscle while hyper (hi Richard!)
> but in most cases it's highly unlikely* and would involve truly insane
> amounts of food. Either way, I doubt that you're actually hyperthyroid <