4:1

On Jul 26, 4:45 pm, "Steve Freides" <st... DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>
> At one time, this ratio was the claim to fame of the recovery drinks R4
> and Accelerade by Endurox. I used both when I was a runner and cyclist,
> and they really did work better than Gatorade or similar.

Wow, they really made a difference?? Hmm, so I guess, whatever the
calories, it works.

> I doubt one
> size fits all when it comes to post-workout food if for no other reason
> than the workouts can vary so much.

Well, muscle is muscle, regardless of why their ATP is deprived or how
it is deprived (intense bursts or prolonged sapping)...4:1 should
apply to all or none (assuming no medical conditions and such).

> Just my opinion.

Very interesting to hear. Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll try
a 4:1 sugar to whey mix myself and see if anything happens...though,
then again, I suppose, with all that sugar, there should be at least
the perception of some kind of a "boost," no??

> -S-http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 26, 7:31 pm, "D Stumpus" <dstumpus_N... DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
> Speaking as a runner (long term aerobic power user):
>
> The 4 to 1 ratio is what Accelerade says, and supposedly they've patented
> it. They've got a bunch of Journal articles on their website supporting
> that. I've read separately that short chain amino acids are used for energy
> in aerobic mode, and lower the rate of muscle breakdown during exercise.

Holy heck, they've "patented" it??? Not the actual ratio, no way!
Unless they funded all the studies utilizing that ratio, I
suppose...??

> Protein (chains of amino acids) absorb the stomach's acidity. If you eat
> carbs only during a long exercise session, your stomach will get overly
> acidic.

Interesting! Sounds like heartburn -- sometimes when I ingest a lot
of carbs like breads and cakes I get heartburn. Same thing?

> The carbs consumed during exercise mainly replenish and help maintain blood
> sugar levels, although some probably finds its way back into the muscles as
> glycogen. If you've ever done a long term run and gotten weak and dizzy,
> that's a sign of low blood sugar, and means you haven't been eating/drinking
> enough carbs.

Most I ever did was fifteen miles on the treadmill, at 2:45. I don't
remember feeling weak and dizzy, necessarily, but I always feel
"happily drained," no matter what the distance.

I'll trying having a carb/protein drink next time and see if that
helps.

> Most endurance runners (multi hour events) consume roughly 200-300
> calories/hour in the form of snacks/gels/energy drinks.

Yeah, I've always wondered about that. I didn't even have water on
hand while running on the treadmill. I never do, actually. I only
drink after a run; I never interrupt a run for a sip, and I don't run
with any bottles or packs on me.

But now that I'm 35 and just starting to feel kinda weird sometimes,
I'm looking into all these things; hence my questions.

> Don't know about distance runners ever using the stuff -- sounds like weight
> lifting Chemistry to me...

Yes, you're right. Apparently creatine draws water into the muscles
and adds more weight thereby (though supposedly swelled muscles make
for faster protein synthesis).

> When warmed up in aerobic mode, the tendency to get a low blood sugar
> reaction to pure carbs is greatly reduced -- glycemic index isn't much of a
> factor for most folks. So the type of carb isn't particularly important.

Right -- for runners!

But hi-gly carbs are supposed to be most efficient at loading protein
into your system. Even for runners that's important, especially since
protein is supposed to be burned, two, past two hours of exercise.

All that from "Nutrient Timing," which is focused on the strength and
speed athlete, but still, muscle is muscle and there's a lot of cross-
over benefits if this stuff is true....
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 26, 8:06 pm, Dot <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Also from the running perspective, I haven't read the more recent stuff,
> but the original studies, I believe, using the 4:1 ratio had protein
> ADDED to the carbs, so that ratio had more calories than pure carbs.
> There was another issue with their design also - either small number or
> using time to exhaustion as result. I believe some articles (or at least
> one) has come out in the last few years where they used same number of
> calories, but not sure.

In "Nutrient Timing" by the Head of Kinesiology at Texas University
it's stated that calories actually didn't matter. Some studies are
cited which suggested that it's the carbs that's the independent
variable, and calories do not factor at all for purposes of muscular
contraction during exercise and muscular recovery immediately after
exercise.

> If you look at this article on their websitehttp://www.accelerade.com/science/FeaturedStudy.aspx
> I don't see anything in there supporting the 4:1 ratio, just the carbs +
> protein approach. Some of the original articles cited might have it in
> there, but I would think Accelerade's page would make a big deal of it,
> if they did.

Amazing...their ad in Runner's World magazine does make a big deal of
the ratio!

> I think the endurance perspective is different from lifting perspective
> although there's some overlap, so when a guy cross posts in that many
> different groups about an "ideal" ratio in a sports drink, he really
> does need to specify "ideal" for what?


Good point -- but I meant "ideal" in the very simple ("simple") sense
of intra-workout musclar contraction and post-workout muscular
recovery. Seems it should benefit both types of athletes "equally,"
though they channel the benefits towards different activities.

> Dot
>
> --
> "Dream big and dare to fail." --- Norman Vaughan
> world-famous adventurer who was with Byrd in Antarctica
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

Get a wife you sore loser!


On Jul 27, 12:36 am, burgerbillrod....TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Get a life you dumbass.
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1185830220.722575.263370@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 26, 4:45 pm, "Steve Freides" <st... DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> At one time, this ratio was the claim to fame of the recovery drinks
>> R4
>> and Accelerade by Endurox. I used both when I was a runner and
>> cyclist,
>> and they really did work better than Gatorade or similar.
>
> Wow, they really made a difference?? Hmm, so I guess, whatever the
> calories, it works.

For me as an endurance athlete, it made a huge difference. I could
quite literally run more miles per week because I was recovering better
after I started using Endurox R4 as my recovery drink. The stuff was/is
fantastic in that regard as far as I'm concerned. When they later came
out with Accelerade, I started taking that on the bike. Both were
always only available as powders, but I think they're now doing
pre-release advertising of Accelerade in pre-mixed form. If memory
serves, the main difference between the two products was that the 'while
exercising' version, Accelerade, had more salt than the 'after
exercising' version, R4.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>> I doubt one
>> size fits all when it comes to post-workout food if for no other
>> reason
>> than the workouts can vary so much.
>
> Well, muscle is muscle, regardless of why their ATP is deprived or how
> it is deprived (intense bursts or prolonged sapping)...4:1 should
> apply to all or none (assuming no medical conditions and such).
>
>> Just my opinion.
>
> Very interesting to hear. Thanks for the feedback. I guess I'll try
> a 4:1 sugar to whey mix myself and see if anything happens...though,
> then again, I suppose, with all that sugar, there should be at least
> the perception of some kind of a "boost," no??
>
>> -S-http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

Steve Freides wrote:
> If memory serves, the main difference between the two products was
> that the 'while exercising' version, Accelerade, had more salt than
> the 'after exercising' version, R4.

The Endurox (R4) also has some extra stuff. At the very least, ciwuja
which is apparently a relative of Siberian ginseng and may be
something of an adaptogen.

I too thought the Endurox was helping me recover better than whatever
I was using before it, and I may well have been right. But then I
also didn't notice a dropoff in recovery when I stopped buying Endurox
and just made sure to get some carbs and a little protein in me ASAP,
e.g. juice and breakfast, beer and dinner, a fruit/juice/yogurt/sorbet
smoothie, whatever. You know, like "food... something my body needs
anyway."

My experience is sheer frequency of running - ideally every day, twice
most days - pumps up the recovery too. In other sports? No idea.
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 31, 3:54 am, Charles <j... RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> You are such a silly sulky old fart John Williams; your paranoia
> insists that you have to imagine that there is some co-ordination and
> degree of plotting between people who dislike you, or express
> criticism of your unpleasant personality defects.
>
> The truth of the matter old chap, is that you are a classic psychopath
> and have many long-term critics and enemies, some of whom risk your
> persistent "trolling", baleful behaviour tantrums and sinister
> stalking, in order to drawn to your attention, and the attention of
> others, your continuing sociopathic behavioural problems.
>
> It is only by constant vigilance and retaliatory tactics, that your
> menacing activities are effectively curtailed.



I can only wonder how many Orders of Protection he has against him in
real life. Definitely a disturbing personality trait, his usenet ass-
stalking. Single middle-aged male with cats and an interest in guns
and cyber-stalking...what a character profile!
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 30, 9:50 pm, Lucas Buck <sbcp... DeleteThis @earthlink.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
>
>
> interment != interNment


Hehehe...thanks for the reminder!
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 30, 9:12 pm, "Steve Freides" <st... RemoveThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>
> For me as an endurance athlete, it made a huge difference. I could
> quite literally run more miles per week because I was recovering better
> after I started using Endurox R4 as my recovery drink. The stuff was/is
> fantastic in that regard as far as I'm concerned. When they later came
> out with Accelerade, I started taking that on the bike. Both were
> always only available as powders, but I think they're now doing
> pre-release advertising of Accelerade in pre-mixed form. If memory
> serves, the main difference between the two products was that the 'while
> exercising' version, Accelerade, had more salt than the 'after
> exercising' version, R4.
>
> -S-http://www.kbnj.com


Hmmm!

So they work for you...when do you take them? I mean, like, when
you're thrity minutes into a run, or forty, or sixty, or what? Just
curious if you've noticed. And, like, how much longer or further can
you go?

I've run a straight fifteen miles on the treadmill in 2:45 without
even a sip of water...while that ain't a competitive time at all, I've
never understood the need for recovery drinks and whatnot. But so
many folks seem to swear by them that now, as I approach middle age
with some developing physical ailments, I'm really curious as to
whether these "magic" potions and powders will help me somehow. I
guess I'm wondering whether these things help "old folks," mostly??
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 30, 9:50 pm, Charlie Pendejo <Charlie.Pend....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The Endurox (R4) also has some extra stuff. At the very least, ciwuja
> which is apparently a relative of Siberian ginseng and may be
> something of an adaptogen.
>
> I too thought the Endurox was helping me recover better than whatever
> I was using before it, and I may well have been right. But then I
> also didn't notice a dropoff in recovery when I stopped buying Endurox
> and just made sure to get some carbs and a little protein in me ASAP,
> e.g. juice and breakfast, beer and dinner, a fruit/juice/yogurt/sorbet
> smoothie, whatever. You know, like "food... something my body needs
> anyway."
>
> My experience is sheer frequency of running - ideally every day, twice
> most days - pumps up the recovery too. In other sports? No idea.


Yeah, I was wondering about that...perhaps just taxing your muscles
and your system overall winds up developing and expanding your
recuperative capabilities? I mean, in lieu of a sports drink?

Indeed, food should do just fine...I think the idea of a recovery
drink is 'cause it's handier and faster, and most athletes don't like
to actually eat after exercising (I'm always ready for a meal
myself)....
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 31, 7:32 am, "Doug Freese" <dfre... RemoveThis @hvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> My recover drink is still a brew( and yes, most Heineken skunk piss) and
> works very well. I alsotry to eat within the next 15-20 minutes. My
> long runs are picked to finish close to a restaurant. I know chocolate
> milk is as good as any sport drink but I'm never in the mood for it post
> run.
>
> -Doug


That reminds me...I feel like eating ("feel like" -- not hunger per
se) after weight lifting, but now that everyone mentions it, yeah, I
don't remember ever feeling like eating after a run! Even after seven
laps around the Central Park reservoir...nope, I can't remember
feeling like having a meal after a run! Whereas after a good two
hours of lifting, I naturally have the idea to go somewhere and sit
down to a nice fancy meal -- again, not hunger, but something of an
appetite.

I wonder if that's somehow just a psychological association I've
developed instead of anything my body is influencing my mind to do....
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1 

On Jul 26, 8:31 pm, "Tomasso" <nos....RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1969924.htm
>
> Read the whole article.
>
> T.


Very interesting discussion on insulin and leptin -- thanks for the
link!

I wonder what "built-in negative feedback mechanisms that are supposed
to stop us from gaining too much weight" the good professor might be
referring to. I'd thought that the body just naturally wants to take
on as much fat as it can, the same way a tree would just grow forever
if allowed to.
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"Charlie Pendejo" <Charlie.Pendejo DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1185846614.225583.41800@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
> My experience is sheer frequency of running - ideally every day, twice
> most days - pumps up the recovery too.


My recover drink is still a brew( and yes, most Heineken skunk piss) and
works very well. I alsotry to eat within the next 15-20 minutes. My
long runs are picked to finish close to a restaurant. I know chocolate
milk is as good as any sport drink but I'm never in the mood for it post
run.

-Doug
 >> Stay informed about: 4:1