alternative to squats

In article <3547u15cghq116kpp52evo1b0j2u3ipc34 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
JRH <johnny RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> <Omelet RemoveThis @brokenegz.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <8%BEf.9839$1n4.6857@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > "Art S" <thedabbler02 RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> >> news:z7KdnQNR2o-Ue3_eRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> >> > Hi, folks.
> >> >
> >> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack,
> >> > or
> >> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> >> > want
> >> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.
> >> >
> >> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like
> >> > to
> >> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
> >> > my
> >> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
> >> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> >> > better
> >> > alternative?
> >> >
> >> > Johan Larson
> >>
> >> Deadlifts.
> >>
> >> Art
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>
> Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
> exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>
> Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)

Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article <3547u15cghq116kpp52evo1b0j2u3ipc34 DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
JRH <johnny DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> <Omelet DeleteThis @brokenegz.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <8%BEf.9839$1n4.6857@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > "Art S" <thedabbler02 DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> >> news:z7KdnQNR2o-Ue3_eRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> >> > Hi, folks.
> >> >
> >> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a rack,
> >> > or
> >> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> >> > want
> >> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.
> >> >
> >> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would like
> >> > to
> >> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
> >> > my
> >> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
> >> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> >> > better
> >> > alternative?
> >> >
> >> > Johan Larson
> >>
> >> Deadlifts.
> >>
> >> Art
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
>
> Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
> exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
>
> Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>
> TFIF!

Cheers Chas!

I intend to also, now that I have every weekend off!
The tradeoff was working night shifts full time, but it's worth it...
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article
<khobman800-29A328.12181603022006 RemoveThis @sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Hobbes <khobman800 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <3547u15cghq116kpp52evo1b0j2u3ipc34 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
> JRH <johnny RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > <Omelet RemoveThis @brokenegz.com> wrote:
> >
> > >In article <8%BEf.9839$1n4.6857@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > > "Art S" <thedabbler02 RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> > >> news:z7KdnQNR2o-Ue3_eRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> > >> > Hi, folks.
> > >> >
> > >> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
> > >> > rack,
> > >> > or
> > >> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> > >> > want
> > >> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup bar.
> > >> >
> > >> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
> > >> > like
> > >> > to
> > >> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight over
> > >> > my
> > >> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with are
> > >> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> > >> > better
> > >> > alternative?
> > >> >
> > >> > Johan Larson
> > >>
> > >> Deadlifts.
> > >>
> > >> Art
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
> >
> > Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
> > exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
> >
> > Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
>
> Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
> movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.


Well, I judge by what muscles get sore.

When I do heavy deadlifts, the muscles that hurt for the next 2 days are
middle lats (along the thoracic spine), traps and hams. Rear delts get
slightly sore if I do enough work sets. I increased it from 2 warm ups
and one heavy set to 2 warmups and 3 working sets. Ouch! ;-D

I can only make my quads sore when I do a combo of squats and leg press.

I read more of the thread and it appears tho' that there are some
deadlift variations that will work the quads better?

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article
<khobman800-A7CF4D.12381603022006.DeleteThis@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Hobbes <khobman800.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I used to be of the opinion they weren't much good for quads. However,
> right now several of the best sprint coaches in the US are having their
> athletes use deadlifts for a strengthening exercise rather than
> deadlifts. Not because of the back - because of strengthening the quads
> (knee extension) and hamstrings (hip extension). Considering some of the
> times that are being run I can't argue with them!
>
> I do agree that if you think in bodybuilding terms (max hypertrophy)
> there are better exercises, but if you are thinking in terms of strength
> development the quads and hamstrings get a major dose.
>
> --
> Keith

I dunno Keith, they may be using them more for synergy and balance.
Too many people only pay attention to the _front_ of the body since that
is what they can see in the mirror.

Since deadlifts work the hams, you can get better, even leg/thigh
development if you combine deads with other leg exercises that work the
quads. Lots of folks neglect deadlifts.

I happen to love doing them but restrict them to once per week.

How many lifters do you see in the gym nowadays that have really nice
front delt development with piddly rear delts because they do too many
bench presses and neglect proper back work?

Those folks are asking for shoulder problems due to the strength
imbalance!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article <2r87u111h03vf77he26r9djll6fpfqhhio RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
JRH <johnny RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

> I agree, and I have always considered deadlifts to be a superb
> exercise for the legs, as well as the back, but it hasn't always been
> popularly agreed here.

A lot of people are afraid of deadlifts.

They think they are going to hurt their back.

They don't seem to realize that it's one of the finest moves to
STRENGTHEN and protect the back if done properly.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

"Hobbes" wrote
>
> You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
> Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.
>
Do you mean this in the real, physcial sense or in the more esoteric,
philosophical sense? <G>
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article <Omelet-B8F6D7.13232503022006.TakeThisOut@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
OmManiPadmeOmelet <Omelet.TakeThisOut@brokenegz.com> wrote:

> In article
> <khobman800-29A328.12181603022006.TakeThisOut@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> Hobbes <khobman800.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <3547u15cghq116kpp52evo1b0j2u3ipc34.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
> > JRH <johnny.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > > <Omelet.TakeThisOut@brokenegz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article <8%BEf.9839$1n4.6857@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > > > "Art S" <thedabbler02.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> > > >> news:z7KdnQNR2o-Ue3_eRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> > > >> > Hi, folks.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
> > > >> > rack,
> > > >> > or
> > > >> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies I
> > > >> > want
> > > >> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup
> > > >> > bar.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I would
> > > >> > like
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight
> > > >> > over
> > > >> > my
> > > >> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with
> > > >> > are
> > > >> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there a
> > > >> > better
> > > >> > alternative?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Johan Larson
> > > >>
> > > >> Deadlifts.
> > > >>
> > > >> Art
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
> > >
> > > Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
> > > exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
> > >
> > > Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
> >
> > Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
> > movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
>
>
> Well, I judge by what muscles get sore.
>
> When I do heavy deadlifts, the muscles that hurt for the next 2 days are
> middle lats (along the thoracic spine), traps and hams. Rear delts get
> slightly sore if I do enough work sets. I increased it from 2 warm ups
> and one heavy set to 2 warmups and 3 working sets. Ouch! ;-D
>
> I can only make my quads sore when I do a combo of squats and leg press.
>
> I read more of the thread and it appears tho' that there are some
> deadlift variations that will work the quads better?

Soreness is not a sign of adaptation. Isometric and eccentric
contractions tend to cause more soreness than concentric contractions.
However, there is little carryover to dynamic strength except in the
very narrow ROM around the isometric contraction. In this case it is a
moot point since there is virtually no movement of the erector group.
Unless you are a round-back deadlifter.

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article <t9mdndR-SJ7ALX7eRVn-tQ.DeleteThis@comcast.com>,
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Hobbes" wrote
> >
> > You can't have a static or isometric contraction and be a prime mover.
> > Prime movers are gluts, hamstrings and quads.
> >
> Do you mean this in the real, physcial sense or in the more esoteric,
> philosophical sense? <G>
>
>
>

If it really was the esoteric thing I should be a babe magnet...

Sadly. i'm not.

:^(

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

In article
<khobman800-FF3CEF.13355803022006.TakeThisOut@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Hobbes <khobman800.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <Omelet-B8F6D7.13232503022006.TakeThisOut@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> OmManiPadmeOmelet <Omelet.TakeThisOut@brokenegz.com> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <khobman800-29A328.12181603022006.TakeThisOut@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
> > Hobbes <khobman800.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <3547u15cghq116kpp52evo1b0j2u3ipc34.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
> > > JRH <johnny.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > > > <Omelet.TakeThisOut@brokenegz.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >In article <8%BEf.9839$1n4.6857@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> > > > > "Art S" <thedabbler02.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> "Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:z7KdnQNR2o-Ue3_eRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> > > > >> > Hi, folks.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > For complicated reasons, I find myself without access to a gym, a
> > > > >> > rack,
> > > > >> > or
> > > > >> > even a proper bench. That's not a problem for many of the exercies
> > > > >> > I
> > > > >> > want
> > > > >> > to do; I find I can do a lot with a pair of dumbells and a chinup
> > > > >> > bar.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The one area I _do_ find I have trouble working is my legs. I
> > > > >> > would
> > > > >> > like
> > > > >> > to
> > > > >> > do real squats, but without a rack I just can't get enough weight
> > > > >> > over
> > > > >> > my
> > > > >> > head and onto my shoulders. The best alternative I've come up with
> > > > >> > are
> > > > >> > forward barbell lunges, which require a lot less weight. Is there
> > > > >> > a
> > > > >> > better
> > > > >> > alternative?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Johan Larson
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Deadlifts.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Art
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing humble about that opinion Om, the quads in this very popular
> > > > exercise are synergists, but it's not a good "alternative to squats"!
> > > >
> > > > Have a great weekend mate - I usually do! ;o)
> > >
> > > Quadriceps are knee extensors - the knees extend in deadlifts. Quads are
> > > movers in a full deadlift, albeit through a limited ROM.
> >
> >
> > Well, I judge by what muscles get sore.
> >
> > When I do heavy deadlifts, the muscles that hurt for the next 2 days are
> > middle lats (along the thoracic spine), traps and hams. Rear delts get
> > slightly sore if I do enough work sets. I increased it from 2 warm ups
> > and one heavy set to 2 warmups and 3 working sets. Ouch! ;-D
> >
> > I can only make my quads sore when I do a combo of squats and leg press.
> >
> > I read more of the thread and it appears tho' that there are some
> > deadlift variations that will work the quads better?
>
> Soreness is not a sign of adaptation. Isometric and eccentric
> contractions tend to cause more soreness than concentric contractions.
> However, there is little carryover to dynamic strength except in the
> very narrow ROM around the isometric contraction. In this case it is a
> moot point since there is virtually no movement of the erector group.
> Unless you are a round-back deadlifter.

Round back deadlifters end up with lumbar spine injuries... No way.

I know that soreness does not equate with adaptation, but it will
reflect the muscles that were worked. You can also go by "feeling" what
muscles are working during a set.

Listen to your body and concentrate/focus when you lift.
Forget about the cardio bunnies wearing the thongs.

Yes, quads to get worked but not as hard as the hams.
But that of course, is just a personal opinion.

I don't think that I was the one that said they worked the erectors?
I said center lats, traps and rear delts somewhat. It's the reason I
like to do reverse machine fly's for the rear delts on the same day I do
deadlifts.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

kma
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:10:33 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
<Omelet RemoveThis @brokenegz.com> wrote:

>Indeed... but it does not work the quads very well IMHO.

But "daddy raping" does????
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats 

"Johan Larson" <johan0larson8comcast0net> wrote in message
news:PqSdnXFORoFF9X7eRVn-gg@comcast.com...
> "The Crow" <Thecrow.RemoveThis@nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>> I find the barbell deadlift, whichever variation, quite hard to get
>> spot on formwise - which I realise is my own fault - and that, for me,
>> you really need a trap/shrug bar to get it spot on, which will cost
>> more, and take up more room, than a cheapo pair of squat stands.
>
> What's the problem? Do you have a physique that makes it difficult to get
> the bar to clear your knees without skinning them?
>
Yes. I find that, in order to avoid my knees, I subconsciously swing
forward a little, thus putting my back in the shadow of the valley of
vertebra death.
 >> Stay informed about: alternative to squats