Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu..

In article ,
JMW wrote:

> "Steve" wrote:
>
> >I'm in the process of extending my home gym, and I'm trying to decide
> >what to do.
> >
> >First, a little background. I've been going through the beginner
> >program in The Men's Book Of Muscle, after a few previous weeks of a
> >few other exercises, and I'm soon going to be entering week 8. My goal
> >is simply to raise BMR and add muscle in a general way.
> >
> >Anyway, In week 8 the program changes and new exercises are added that
> >require machines: Leg curls and extensions, sitting cable row and lat
> >pulldown. There is also a move to the barbell instead of dumbells for
> >several exercises. I have none of the equipment required, and I'm not
> >really interested to drop a ton of cash on it at the moment so I'm
> >trying to figure what compromises to make. I have free access to a gym,
> >but it's too much time out of the house.
> >
> >Relatively speaking, between barbells, leg curl/extension, or cable
> >exercises, which are the worst to substitute for?
> >
> >My tentative plan is to get a bench (considering the Body Solid FID31)
> >with a leg developer, and substitute for the rest of the exercises.
> >Later I can add a rack and later yet a cable machine. Does this seem
> >reasonable, or is there a really good reason to get the rack or cable
> >machine first?
>
> Power cage, flat/incline bench, 300-pound Olympic set. You can do
> most anything with that if you learn the proper applications,
> notwithstanding the fact that such esoterica may be missing from "The
> Men's Book of Muscle."

Further to this: I wouldn't be overly concerned about the bench having
attachments.

All the cable exercises have a similar exercise that can be done with
the bar. So you can do stiff-legged deadlifts rather than leg curls;
squats or front squats rather than leg extensions; rows and pull-ups or
assisted pull-ups using bungee cord or using the legs for assistance.

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

Many thanks to all who've replied!

I'm finding that it's not always clear what exercises can substitute
for others, and predictably the equipment manufacturers aren't in a big
hurry to make it well known either

So it's really great to read what you all have written.

I started the Men's Book of Muscle program out of convenience, and to
have something to start with. There are one heck of a lot of different
exercises out there, and it's not easy to see which are redundant, and
how much variety is necessary so it's nice to have something to start
from. But I think I will substitute for the machine-based stuff and
keep going with it - there's nothing wrong with it otherwise, as far as
I can tell.

I keep good records of my weight and other measurements, and I've seen
some progress - hence the willingness to invest in more equipment. Just
in case clarification is needed - the "leg developer" I mentioned is
the usual leg curl/extension device, not some late-night-tv miracle
product But if I don't need it, I don't need to buy it.

I may still get a new bench as the one I have is wood, hard and a bit
short. Are the foot restraints for doing ab work worthwhile? There's no
specific need today, but I'd prefer to buy for the long haul.

Regardless I think I'll pick up a barbell bar. I have standard weights
for dumbbells - is there any reason to switch to olympic style?

Steve


On Dec 5, 1:42 pm, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-12-05 Steve napisa³(a):
>
> > I'm in the process of extending my home gym, and I'm trying to decide
> > what to do.For reference, I work out at home or outdoors with very limited
> equipment. Actually I do better progress than when I went to a gym 3
> or 4 times a week.
>
> > First, a little background. I've been going through the beginner
> > program in The Men's Book Of Muscle, after a few previous weeks of a
> > few other exercises, and I'm soon going to be entering week 8. My goal
> > is simply to raise BMR and add muscle in a general way.When working alone, motivation often becomes a limiting factor. No
> buddies, no audience, no fitness bunnies and so on. I say, try to find
> some other goal besides adding a bit here and losing a bit there.
> Something you can measure and see if you are making progress or not.
>
> What I mean is that bodyweight program directed at learning some
> gymnastic positions may result in better body recomposition then your
> typical bodybuilding program, because trainee will have some long term
> goal with an objective ways to assess progress. Looking in the mirror
> is not objective enough for many of us.
>
> > Anyway, In week 8 the program changes and new exercises are added that
> > require machines: Leg curls and extensions, sitting cable row and lat
> > pulldown. There is also a move to the barbell instead of dumbells for
> > several exercises. I have none of the equipment required, and I'm not
> > really interested to drop a ton of cash on it at the moment so I'm
> > trying to figure what compromises to make. I have free access to a gym,
> > but it's too much time out of the house.Forget about pre-written programs. Make your own programs which work
> fine with the equipment you already have. We can help you with this
> task, too. Just write what you have.
>
> > Relatively speaking, between barbells, leg curl/extension, or cable
> > exercises, which are the worst to substitute for?Barbell.
>
> > My tentative plan is to get a bench (considering the Body Solid FID31)
> > with a leg developer,Forget about "leg developer", buy "ab shredder" instead.
>
> BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg extensions.http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html
> Nobody besides Pete needs leg curls.
>
> > and substitute for the rest of the exercises.
> > Later I can add a rack and later yet a cable machine.Don't do it just now. Make yourself "earn" better equipment. If you
> aren't making good progress with whatever little you presently have, it
> will not change after you'll spend a lot of money on it. Spend effort
> and you'll see the results. Spend money, and machine manufacturers will
> see the results.
>
> > Does this seem
> > reasonable, or is there a really good reason to get the rack or cable
> > machine first?I'd get rack if I had a place where to put it. But neither rack or
> pulley will change anything of importance in your training. Really.
>
> One more digression, just to show that limited equipment may not be a
> bad thing. Yesterday I spent some part of my training trying to puzzle
> out why one of the regulars may have problems with push-pressing.
> Instead of doing my typical one-armed clean&press I did two-armed
> push-presses, jerks and Oly-presses. I came to the obvious conclusion
> that I need longer bar, because my isn't much good for bilateral work,
> but today my left shoulder didn't feel right.
>
> Conclusion? I'll not get a longer bar to prevent myself from doing much
> bilateral lifting. My left shoulder doesn't like it, so I'll make it
> easier on myself by not giving myself much choice.
>
> Lack of choice is actually a good thing. You do what you can do, and do
> not bother yourself about all the possibilities. What you *can* do,
> though, is to put more effort into what is available. This will always
> trump better equipment or program.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

In article ,
"Steve" wrote:

> Many thanks to all who've replied!
>
> I'm finding that it's not always clear what exercises can substitute
> for others, and predictably the equipment manufacturers aren't in a big
> hurry to make it well known either
>
> So it's really great to read what you all have written.
>
> I started the Men's Book of Muscle program out of convenience, and to
> have something to start with. There are one heck of a lot of different
> exercises out there, and it's not easy to see which are redundant, and
> how much variety is necessary so it's nice to have something to start
> from. But I think I will substitute for the machine-based stuff and
> keep going with it - there's nothing wrong with it otherwise, as far as
> I can tell.
>
> I keep good records of my weight and other measurements, and I've seen
> some progress - hence the willingness to invest in more equipment. Just
> in case clarification is needed - the "leg developer" I mentioned is
> the usual leg curl/extension device, not some late-night-tv miracle
> product But if I don't need it, I don't need to buy it.
>
> I may still get a new bench as the one I have is wood, hard and a bit
> short. Are the foot restraints for doing ab work worthwhile? There's no
> specific need today, but I'd prefer to buy for the long haul.

Don't need either. You can hook your feet under the bar...

--
Keith
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

Speaking of esoterica--you omitted the HoloBarre.

The OP should also check out Costco/Sam's club, for what looked like an
extensive power rack system, w/ bench, and a lot of other stuff. Effing
hyooge boxes, would *fill* my pickup, at about $400. Can't vouch for it,
just looktid impressive.
Didn't see it that last time I was there, mebbe the time before.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"JMW" wrote in message

> "Steve" wrote:
>
>>I'm in the process of extending my home gym, and I'm trying to decide
>>what to do.
>>
>>First, a little background. I've been going through the beginner
>>program in The Men's Book Of Muscle, after a few previous weeks of a
>>few other exercises, and I'm soon going to be entering week 8. My goal
>>is simply to raise BMR and add muscle in a general way.
>>
>>Anyway, In week 8 the program changes and new exercises are added that
>>require machines: Leg curls and extensions, sitting cable row and lat
>>pulldown. There is also a move to the barbell instead of dumbells for
>>several exercises. I have none of the equipment required, and I'm not
>>really interested to drop a ton of cash on it at the moment so I'm
>>trying to figure what compromises to make. I have free access to a gym,
>>but it's too much time out of the house.
>>
>>Relatively speaking, between barbells, leg curl/extension, or cable
>>exercises, which are the worst to substitute for?
>>
>>My tentative plan is to get a bench (considering the Body Solid FID31)
>>with a leg developer, and substitute for the rest of the exercises.
>>Later I can add a rack and later yet a cable machine. Does this seem
>>reasonable, or is there a really good reason to get the rack or cable
>>machine first?
>
> Power cage, flat/incline bench, 300-pound Olympic set. You can do
> most anything with that if you learn the proper applications,
> notwithstanding the fact that such esoterica may be missing from "The
> Men's Book of Muscle."
>
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

"Steve" wrote in message

Many thanks to all who've replied!

I'm finding that it's not always clear what exercises can substitute
for others, and predictably the equipment manufacturers aren't in a big
hurry to make it well known either
------------------

An extraordinarily important observation.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs


So it's really great to read what you all have written.

I started the Men's Book of Muscle program out of convenience, and to
have something to start with. There are one heck of a lot of different
exercises out there, and it's not easy to see which are redundant, and
how much variety is necessary so it's nice to have something to start
from. But I think I will substitute for the machine-based stuff and
keep going with it - there's nothing wrong with it otherwise, as far as
I can tell.

I keep good records of my weight and other measurements, and I've seen
some progress - hence the willingness to invest in more equipment. Just
in case clarification is needed - the "leg developer" I mentioned is
the usual leg curl/extension device, not some late-night-tv miracle
product But if I don't need it, I don't need to buy it.

I may still get a new bench as the one I have is wood, hard and a bit
short. Are the foot restraints for doing ab work worthwhile? There's no
specific need today, but I'd prefer to buy for the long haul.

Regardless I think I'll pick up a barbell bar. I have standard weights
for dumbbells - is there any reason to switch to olympic style?

Steve


On Dec 5, 1:42 pm, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-12-05 Steve napisa³(a):
>
> > I'm in the process of extending my home gym, and I'm trying to decide
> > what to do.For reference, I work out at home or outdoors with very
> > limited
> equipment. Actually I do better progress than when I went to a gym 3
> or 4 times a week.
>
> > First, a little background. I've been going through the beginner
> > program in The Men's Book Of Muscle, after a few previous weeks of a
> > few other exercises, and I'm soon going to be entering week 8. My goal
> > is simply to raise BMR and add muscle in a general way.When working
> > alone, motivation often becomes a limiting factor. No
> buddies, no audience, no fitness bunnies and so on. I say, try to find
> some other goal besides adding a bit here and losing a bit there.
> Something you can measure and see if you are making progress or not.
>
> What I mean is that bodyweight program directed at learning some
> gymnastic positions may result in better body recomposition then your
> typical bodybuilding program, because trainee will have some long term
> goal with an objective ways to assess progress. Looking in the mirror
> is not objective enough for many of us.
>
> > Anyway, In week 8 the program changes and new exercises are added that
> > require machines: Leg curls and extensions, sitting cable row and lat
> > pulldown. There is also a move to the barbell instead of dumbells for
> > several exercises. I have none of the equipment required, and I'm not
> > really interested to drop a ton of cash on it at the moment so I'm
> > trying to figure what compromises to make. I have free access to a gym,
> > but it's too much time out of the house.Forget about pre-written
> > programs. Make your own programs which work
> fine with the equipment you already have. We can help you with this
> task, too. Just write what you have.
>
> > Relatively speaking, between barbells, leg curl/extension, or cable
> > exercises, which are the worst to substitute for?Barbell.
>
> > My tentative plan is to get a bench (considering the Body Solid FID31)
> > with a leg developer,Forget about "leg developer", buy "ab shredder"
> > instead.
>
> BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg
> extensions.http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html
> Nobody besides Pete needs leg curls.
>
> > and substitute for the rest of the exercises.
> > Later I can add a rack and later yet a cable machine.Don't do it just
> > now. Make yourself "earn" better equipment. If you
> aren't making good progress with whatever little you presently have, it
> will not change after you'll spend a lot of money on it. Spend effort
> and you'll see the results. Spend money, and machine manufacturers will
> see the results.
>
> > Does this seem
> > reasonable, or is there a really good reason to get the rack or cable
> > machine first?I'd get rack if I had a place where to put it. But
> > neither rack or
> pulley will change anything of importance in your training. Really.
>
> One more digression, just to show that limited equipment may not be a
> bad thing. Yesterday I spent some part of my training trying to puzzle
> out why one of the regulars may have problems with push-pressing.
> Instead of doing my typical one-armed clean&press I did two-armed
> push-presses, jerks and Oly-presses. I came to the obvious conclusion
> that I need longer bar, because my isn't much good for bilateral work,
> but today my left shoulder didn't feel right.
>
> Conclusion? I'll not get a longer bar to prevent myself from doing much
> bilateral lifting. My left shoulder doesn't like it, so I'll make it
> easier on myself by not giving myself much choice.
>
> Lack of choice is actually a good thing. You do what you can do, and do
> not bother yourself about all the possibilities. What you *can* do,
> though, is to put more effort into what is available. This will always
> trump better equipment or program.
>
> --
> Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

"Steve" wrote in message

>I started the Men's Book of Muscle program out of convenience, and to
have something to start with. There are one heck of a lot of different
exercises out there, and it's not easy to see which are redundant, and
how much variety is necessary so it's nice to have something to start
from. But I think I will substitute for the machine-based stuff and
keep going with it - there's nothing wrong with it otherwise, as far as
I can tell.<

Sure, everybody starts somewhere. IMO, you show good sense by following
these guys' advice not to get machines. I cringe just thinking of those leg
attachments they put on some benches -- I never found one with decent
geometry. The free weight substitutes the others here have suggested are
vastly preferable.

>I keep good records of my weight and other measurements, and I've seen
some progress - hence the willingness to invest in more equipment. Just
in case clarification is needed - the "leg developer" I mentioned is
the usual leg curl/extension device, not some late-night-tv miracle
product But if I don't need it, I don't need to buy it.
I may still get a new bench as the one I have is wood, hard and a bit
short. Are the foot restraints for doing ab work worthwhile? There's no
specific need today, but I'd prefer to buy for the long haul.<

Then buy the foot restraints, if you want -- they're just a convenience and
they won't cost much. Be sure you get a bench that lies flat and inclines,
both.

>Regardless I think I'll pick up a barbell bar. I have standard weights
for dumbbells - is there any reason to switch to olympic style?<

Yes, if you're buying for the long haul. This issue is the main reason I'm
chiming in on this thread. I'm no great exemplar of body building, but I do
okay for a girl with a standard set, and I still want an Olympic set and a
power cage, just like the big boys recommend. I keep my eyes open for used
sets. Olympic is just . . . . better. It's easier to swap plates, it's a
sturdier bar, and it's just a better standard. It's worth the money.

ep
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

Dnia 2006-12-05 Steve napisa³(a):
> Many thanks to all who've replied!
>
> I'm finding that it's not always clear what exercises can substitute
> for others, and predictably the equipment manufacturers aren't in a big
> hurry to make it well known either

Why should they?

> So it's really great to read what you all have written.
>
> I started the Men's Book of Muscle program out of convenience, and to
> have something to start with. There are one heck of a lot of different
> exercises out there, and it's not easy to see which are redundant, and
> how much variety is necessary

Not much. Stick to the basics and hit them hard works better than ADD
attitude to lifting.

> so it's nice to have something to start
> from. But I think I will substitute for the machine-based stuff and
> keep going with it - there's nothing wrong with it otherwise, as far as
> I can tell.

There is one problem. Machines take place and money you could have
spent on quality equipment. Like a good quality power cage and Eleiko
bar and bumper plates, for example.

But if you have money and space for all that, by any means do get
machines.

> I keep good records of my weight and other measurements, and I've seen
> some progress - hence the willingness to invest in more equipment. Just
> in case clarification is needed - the "leg developer" I mentioned is
> the usual leg curl/extension device, not some late-night-tv miracle
> product But if I don't need it, I don't need to buy it.
>
> I may still get a new bench as the one I have is wood, hard and a bit
> short. Are the foot restraints for doing ab work worthwhile? There's no
> specific need today, but I'd prefer to buy for the long haul.

So buy a good one. But I'd go with chin/dip station first. Or I'd find a
way to do those exercises without a station.

> Regardless I think I'll pick up a barbell bar. I have standard weights
> for dumbbells - is there any reason to switch to olympic style?

Yes. I'd buy oly weight set, or two, and a quality bar first. Then
I'd go for a cage. Then I'd go for a coach (real coach, not personal
trainer). Then more coaching. Then even more coaching. Until I'd run
out of money or time I was wishing to invest in my hobby.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

Dnia 2006-12-05 Steve napisa³(a):
> I'm in the process of extending my home gym, and I'm trying to decide
> what to do.

For reference, I work out at home or outdoors with very limited
equipment. Actually I do better progress than when I went to a gym 3
or 4 times a week.

> First, a little background. I've been going through the beginner
> program in The Men's Book Of Muscle, after a few previous weeks of a
> few other exercises, and I'm soon going to be entering week 8. My goal
> is simply to raise BMR and add muscle in a general way.

When working alone, motivation often becomes a limiting factor. No
buddies, no audience, no fitness bunnies and so on. I say, try to find
some other goal besides adding a bit here and losing a bit there.
Something you can measure and see if you are making progress or not.

What I mean is that bodyweight program directed at learning some
gymnastic positions may result in better body recomposition then your
typical bodybuilding program, because trainee will have some long term
goal with an objective ways to assess progress. Looking in the mirror
is not objective enough for many of us.

> Anyway, In week 8 the program changes and new exercises are added that
> require machines: Leg curls and extensions, sitting cable row and lat
> pulldown. There is also a move to the barbell instead of dumbells for
> several exercises. I have none of the equipment required, and I'm not
> really interested to drop a ton of cash on it at the moment so I'm
> trying to figure what compromises to make. I have free access to a gym,
> but it's too much time out of the house.

Forget about pre-written programs. Make your own programs which work
fine with the equipment you already have. We can help you with this
task, too. Just write what you have.

> Relatively speaking, between barbells, leg curl/extension, or cable
> exercises, which are the worst to substitute for?

Barbell.

> My tentative plan is to get a bench (considering the Body Solid FID31)
> with a leg developer,

Forget about "leg developer", buy "ab shredder" instead.

BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg extensions.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html
Nobody besides Pete needs leg curls.

> and substitute for the rest of the exercises.
> Later I can add a rack and later yet a cable machine.

Don't do it just now. Make yourself "earn" better equipment. If you
aren't making good progress with whatever little you presently have, it
will not change after you'll spend a lot of money on it. Spend effort
and you'll see the results. Spend money, and machine manufacturers will
see the results.

> Does this seem
> reasonable, or is there a really good reason to get the rack or cable
> machine first?

I'd get rack if I had a place where to put it. But neither rack or
pulley will change anything of importance in your training. Really.

One more digression, just to show that limited equipment may not be a
bad thing. Yesterday I spent some part of my training trying to puzzle
out why one of the regulars may have problems with push-pressing.
Instead of doing my typical one-armed clean&press I did two-armed
push-presses, jerks and Oly-presses. I came to the obvious conclusion
that I need longer bar, because my isn't much good for bilateral work,
but today my left shoulder didn't feel right.

Conclusion? I'll not get a longer bar to prevent myself from doing much
bilateral lifting. My left shoulder doesn't like it, so I'll make it
easier on myself by not giving myself much choice.

Lack of choice is actually a good thing. You do what you can do, and do
not bother yourself about all the possibilities. What you *can* do,
though, is to put more effort into what is available. This will always
trump better equipment or program.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

"JMW" wrote in message


>
> Power cage, flat/incline bench, 300-pound Olympic set. You can do
> most anything with that if you learn the proper applications,
> notwithstanding the fact that such esoterica may be missing from "The
> Men's Book of Muscle."

It beats the "Body Sculpting Bible".......
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

In article , says...
> BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg extensions.
> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html

Is there a similar thing for hamstrings that don't require gym
equipment?

John Black
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, John Black wrote:

> In article , says...
>
>> BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg extensions.
>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html
>
> Is there a similar thing for hamstrings that don't require gym
> equipment?

I reckon you could do good mornings the same way, with a weight held to
your chest. If you can hold it in your hands, you could also do Romanian
deadlifts that way.

tom

--
Curse me, God, for making you this way!
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

Dnia 2006-12-06 John Black napisa³(a):
> In article , says...
>> BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg extensions.
>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html
>
> Is there a similar thing for hamstrings that don't require gym
> equipment?

Yes. It's called natural Glute-Ham-Raise and it's a very difficult
exercise. In practice you'll need assistance.

Like this guy, for example.
http://www.beastskills.com/gluteham2.JPG
http://www.beastskills.com/gluteham1.JPG

You can use ab-wheel for assistance too.
http://www.beastskills.com/IMG_3194.JPG
http://www.beastskills.com/IMG_3195.JPG
(as you can see, dumbbell will work too)

Or you can do a modified version of GHR. You lean forward a bit and then
just bend at your hips until your nose touches the floor. The degree
of lean changes the difficulty of the exercise.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu.. 

"Andrzej Rosa" schreef:

>>> BTW - sissy squats are way better quad exercise than leg extensions.
>>> http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/WTSissySquat.html

>> Is there a similar thing for hamstrings that don't require gym
>> equipment?

> Yes. It's called natural Glute-Ham-Raise and it's a very difficult
> exercise. In practice you'll need assistance.

> Like this guy, for example.
> http://www.beastskills.com/gluteham2.JPG
> http://www.beastskills.com/gluteham1.JPG

The bands provide resistance, right?

So this exercise works the abs, hip flexors and quads?

----
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Looking for advice on building my home gym - what substitu..