When to Whey ??

"NC" <me.TakeThisOut@home.com> thoughtfully wrote:

>Hi all,
>First post here so fingers crossed....
>I have usually been advised to drink whey protein shakes after a workout to
>help with musle regen and recovery. However, in this months Mens Health (UK,
>table on page 130) they suggest that I should be having the protein before
>the workout (about an hour). So, which is best ?? Also, should I be having
>some on my rest days ?? If so, when is the best time of day ?

Protein consumption is as important, in fact probably more improtant, during
rest days as it is during work out days.

Spread your protein consumption out through out the day. For example
breakfast, brunch, lunch, mid afternoon, evening meal, before bed.

I also purposefully use the term protein consumption because you don't
'have' to consume whey shakes. You can just as beneficially consume a tin of
tuna or other high protein food. However whey is convenient. I 'whey'
three times a day at breakfast, post workout (I work out during lunch) and
prior to bed. However I steadily consume sufficient levels of protein and
carbs through out the day eating something at least every two hours.

My pre workout meal usually consists of 55/25/5% carb/protein/fat meal such
as milk along with creatine about an hour or so before.

--
http://www.bodybuildingtracker.com
Track your progress on-line free, no pop-ups or spam. (thanks Pet)
View my profile: (don't take the proverbial!
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 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

Thanks for the advice everyone. I generally workout (mainly cardio with some
weights to help definition to get *some* growth to replace the fat I burn)
at lunchtime. I normally have a banana an hour before and then a shake
imediately after - along with a sandwich such as chicken breast. My evening
meal usually contains a about 15-20g of protien in the form of chicken or
quorn.
I'll start having half a pint whey shake before and half after and see how
that goes - sound OK ?
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

In article <g5es409ff12rigojt2cuc5fp0502becev9.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>, nospam@nospam-
anon.com.nospam.invalid says...
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:02:34 -0000, Also Sprach "Ellis"
> <ellis_paul.TakeThisOut@msn.comREMOVE> :
>
> >
> >"NC" <me.TakeThisOut@home.com> wrote in message news:VKp3c.2718$m56.2173@newsfe1-win...
> >> Hi all,
> >> First post here so fingers crossed....
> >> I have usually been advised to drink whey protein shakes after a workout
> >to
> >> help with musle regen and recovery. However, in this months Mens Health
> >(UK,
> >> table on page 130) they suggest that I should be having the protein before
> >> the workout (about an hour). So, which is best ?? Also, should I be having
> >> some on my rest days ?? If so, when is the best time of day ?
> >
> >Ideally drink some before and after (and sip some during, if you can stomach
> >it). And your post-workout shake should contain some sugary carbs.
> >
> >Yes, you should make sure your protein intake on rest days is as high as
> >workout days. Your body grows when it's *out* of the gym.
>
> What he said.
> And stop reading that rag. It's a mag by wankers, for wankers.
>
>
> --
> "Sounds a bit like Cossie's Low Fat Ketogenic Bulking Diet." - rj
> "Symmetry and proportion don't count for tits, as long as the tits are large." - JC Der Koenig
> "Personally I like to keep my advice that kills to a minimum." - Zaf
> John
> [uk.rec.bodybuilding] - http://www.urb.org.uk
> http://www.sports-supplements.co.uk
>

But how do I know you're not a wanker ? At least the writers are all
'credible' and can prove it due to their roles in the industry (advisors
to proffessional teams etc). I agree some of it is shite - letters
asking how to buy socks!! - but there is some pretty decent content
mostly. (and I've just taken up a 12month subscription so I'm stuck with
it !)
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

NC wrote:

> Thanks for the advice everyone. I generally workout (mainly cardio with some
> weights to help definition to get *some* growth to replace the fat I burn)
> at lunchtime. I normally have a banana an hour before and then a shake
> imediately after - along with a sandwich such as chicken breast. My evening
> meal usually contains a about 15-20g of protien in the form of chicken or
> quorn.
> I'll start having half a pint whey shake before and half after and see how
> that goes - sound OK ?

No point!
The lads were under the impression you were talking about _real_ weights
and training.
"Cardio bunnies" do NOT need anywhere near the quantities of protien as
"weight lifters" Certainly not before, or after or on non-workout days.

Keep reading "Mens Health" and continuing your futile battle of delusion
then, in 12 months time once your MH subscription has finished and you
are completely disillusion with your total lack of progress and
significant results, come back and we;ll tell you how to do it properly.

Note, [lease don't take this personally.
:¬)



--
http://gymratz.co.uk - UK's best bodybuilding supplements,gym equipment.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam!
TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for Personal Trainers or individual purchase.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

Pet wrote:
> NC wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the advice everyone. I generally workout (mainly cardio
>> with some
>> weights to help definition to get *some* growth to replace the fat I
>> burn)
>> at lunchtime. I normally have a banana an hour before and then a shake
>> imediately after - along with a sandwich such as chicken breast. My
>> evening
>> meal usually contains a about 15-20g of protien in the form of chicken or
>> quorn.
>> I'll start having half a pint whey shake before and half after and see
>> how
>> that goes - sound OK ?
>
>
> No point!
> The lads were under the impression you were talking about _real_ weights
> and training.
> "Cardio bunnies" do NOT need anywhere near the quantities of protien as
> "weight lifters" Certainly not before, or after or on non-workout days.
>
> Keep reading "Mens Health" and continuing your futile battle of delusion
> then, in 12 months time once your MH subscription has finished and you
> are completely disillusion with your total lack of progress and
> significant results, come back and we;ll tell you how to do it properly.
>
> Note, [lease don't take this personally.
> :¬)
>
>
>
Dont worry, I wont...
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

NC wrote:

>> Note, [lease don't take this personally.
>> :¬)
>>
>>
>>
> Dont worry, I wont...

:¬))

--
http://gymratz.co.uk - UK's best bodybuilding supplements,gym equipment.
http://gymratz.co.uk/hot-seat.htm - Live web-cam!
TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for Personal Trainers or individual purchase.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

Pet wrote:
> NC wrote:
>
>>> Note, [lease don't take this personally.
>>> :¬)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Dont worry, I wont...
>
>
> :¬))
>

On the other hand.. come on then.. what would you recommend I do ?
6'1", 85kgs - reasonably athletic build with some decent(ish) muscle
definition. I want to lose more fat, improve overall fitness and start
building some size. Go to the gym 3 times a week at lunchtimes, have
about 1.5hrs time for each session (thats time on the gym floor - not
including showing etc etc)
Currently do 40mins (total) interval training on the treadmill and
eliptical trainer - varying from 30% to 100% effort (100% on the
treadmill, more like 70-80% on the eliptical). Prefer short sharp cardio
rather than spending hours plodding away and watching the TV.
Weights before cardio consisting of:
lat raise
lat pulldown
leg curl
leg raise
bicep curl
tricep curl
shoulder press
seated fly
Do one set of each at a weight where I can just manage 15 reps, then up
the weight by 2 on the stack and go til failure (usually about another
4-5 reps)
Warm up on rower, then weights, then treadmill then eliptical
finally do 3 sets of 30 sit ups on the swiss ball with a moderate weight
behind my head (always finish the sets but just about kill myself!)
followed by 3 sets of 10 dorsal raises holding each for 2 secs.
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

"NC" <me.DeleteThis@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ab8e5a952b23f3f989680@news.cable.ntlworld.com...
> But how do I know you're not a wanker ? At least the writers are all
> 'credible' and can prove it due to their roles in the industry (advisors
> to proffessional teams etc).

I've read some of the most amazing bollocks written by doctors and
dieticians. To most people, these are "credible" too.

>I agree some of it is shite - letters
> asking how to buy socks!! - but there is some pretty decent content
> mostly.

I'm not necessarily saying there isn't...but - how do you know? Do you
research references or do you just take their word for it? And if you know
what is decent and what is shite why do you need to buy the thing in the
first place?

>(and I've just taken up a 12month subscription so I'm stuck with
> it !)

Ah.

Ellis
--
Apply yourself. Take a few risks. Have fun with it.
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

"Ellis" <ellis_paul.TakeThisOut@msn.comREMOVE> wrote in message
news:mYGdnQm1P-5jlNLd4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>
> "NC" <me.TakeThisOut@home.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1ab8e5a952b23f3f989680@news.cable.ntlworld.com...
> > But how do I know you're not a wanker ? At least the writers are all
> > 'credible' and can prove it due to their roles in the industry (advisors
> > to proffessional teams etc).
>
> I've read some of the most amazing bollocks written by doctors and
> dieticians. To most people, these are "credible" too.

ah haaaaa... just like friendly Dr. Harold Shipman.
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

"NC" <me.TakeThisOut@home.com> wrote in message
news:2ZC3c.27629$gC2.1850@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Pet wrote:
> > NC wrote:
> >
> >>> Note, [lease don't take this personally.
> >>> :¬)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Dont worry, I wont...
> >
> >
> > :¬))
> >
>
> On the other hand.. come on then.. what would you recommend I do ?
> 6'1", 85kgs - reasonably athletic build with some decent(ish) muscle
> definition. I want to lose more fat, improve overall fitness and start
> building some size. Go to the gym 3 times a week at lunchtimes, have
> about 1.5hrs time for each session (thats time on the gym floor - not
> including showing etc etc)
> Currently do 40mins (total) interval training on the treadmill and
> eliptical trainer - varying from 30% to 100% effort (100% on the
> treadmill, more like 70-80% on the eliptical). Prefer short sharp cardio
> rather than spending hours plodding away and watching the TV.
> Weights before cardio consisting of:
> lat raise
> lat pulldown
> leg curl
> leg raise
> bicep curl
> tricep curl
> shoulder press
> seated fly
> Do one set of each at a weight where I can just manage 15 reps, then up
> the weight by 2 on the stack and go til failure (usually about another
> 4-5 reps)
> Warm up on rower, then weights, then treadmill then eliptical
> finally do 3 sets of 30 sit ups on the swiss ball with a moderate weight
> behind my head (always finish the sets but just about kill myself!)
> followed by 3 sets of 10 dorsal raises holding each for 2 secs.

You should really have posted your routine at the start; there is far more
scope for improvement in this area than by playing around with when you have
your goddam protein shake (BTW, loved the pun in the title).

Firstly, enjoy your Men's Health magazine. Do not be surprised if the advice
in the March issue seems to totally contradict advice it will give you in
the April issue. If its anything like the Australian issue, in an attempt to
keep telling their readers something new, they will tell you in May to
benchpress with low reps/high weight, in June to benchpress only high
reps/low weight, and in July not to benchpress at all.

Secondly, the only supposed advantage of whey is its quick absorption.
Useful for getting protein into your system quickly after a workout. It has
no advantage over more natural protein sources for next day consumption.

Thirdly, your routine. I hope others will comment, but:

* 15 reps is too much for maximum hypertrophy (muscle growth, what you said
you wanted). If you want to have different amounts for your two sets, go
with 10/4 at most or 10/6 even better. Many people believe maximum
hypertrophy occurs in the 6 - 8 rep range, which you miss completely.

* 3 sets of 30 situps! Your f**king crazy! That must hurt like crazy. It
won't give you huge ab muscles - like every other muscle, you develop your
abs by doing far fewer reps at a challenging weight. Unless you get your
body fat way down, nobody will ever see your abs (even if they are hyooge),
so there is somewhat less reason to build these up than there is for most
other major muscle groups.

* WTF is a "seated fly"? (or a "lat raise" or "leg raise" for that matter).
I assume a tricep curl is some exercise which involves straightening your
elbow. Ditch it, and do bench presses instead - exercises both your triceps
and pecs in one exercise (4 muscles for the price of one!). I dunno what
these leg exercises are, but you should be doing squats - having strong
quadriceps (front of thigh) is very good cosmetically and for every day use
(helping move fridges etc).

There is a lot more I could say, but hopefully you will get some more
responses. If you don't, I encourage you to start a new thread ("critique my
routine") - this would be a lot more useful to you than having somebody tell
you when to drink your milkshake.

HTH


Peter Webb
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

"Peter Webb" <wabbfamilyDIESPAMDIE RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:404f03b7$0$3958$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Firstly, enjoy your Men's Health magazine. Do not be surprised if the
advice
> in the March issue seems to totally contradict advice it will give you in
> the April issue. If its anything like the Australian issue, in an attempt
to
> keep telling their readers something new, they will tell you in May to
> benchpress with low reps/high weight, in June to benchpress only high
> reps/low weight, and in July not to benchpress at all.

Check.


> Secondly, the only supposed advantage of whey is its quick absorption.
> Useful for getting protein into your system quickly after a workout. It
has
> no advantage over more natural protein sources for next day consumption.

Check.

> Thirdly, your routine. I hope others will comment, but:
>
> * 15 reps is too much for maximum hypertrophy (muscle growth, what you
said
> you wanted). If you want to have different amounts for your two sets, go
> with 10/4 at most or 10/6 even better. Many people believe maximum
> hypertrophy occurs in the 6 - 8 rep range, which you miss completely.

Check. However, there is a routine that is specifically targetted to
hypertrophy and, IMO, well-suited to beginners too. Read through
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html and you'll learn a lot.
I mention this as it uses a rep scheme that is not 6-8, but cycles through
5, 10 and 15. But I agree that the 6 - 8 rep range is commonly seen as
"ideal" for hypertrophy.

> * 3 sets of 30 situps! Your f**king crazy! That must hurt like crazy. It
> won't give you huge ab muscles - like every other muscle, you develop your
> abs by doing far fewer reps at a challenging weight. Unless you get your
> body fat way down, nobody will ever see your abs (even if they are
hyooge),
> so there is somewhat less reason to build these up than there is for most
> other major muscle groups.

Check.

>
> * WTF is a "seated fly"? (or a "lat raise" or "leg raise" for that
matter).
> I assume a tricep curl is some exercise which involves straightening your
> elbow. Ditch it, and do bench presses instead - exercises both your
triceps
> and pecs in one exercise (4 muscles for the price of one!). I dunno what
> these leg exercises are, but you should be doing squats - having strong
> quadriceps (front of thigh) is very good cosmetically and for every day
use
> (helping move fridges etc).

Check.

Have a look at http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html and in particular
look at squat, deadlift, benchpress, stiff-legged deadlift, military press
and maybe bent-over row too. And something for calves. Basically if the
mechanics of the exercise are "compound" then this is a good basic
muscle-builder. You can add back some of you're foo-foo body-buffer
exercises above when all you have to worry about is symmetry.

Ellis
--
Discipline brings you freedom
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

NC <me.RemoveThis@home.com> thoughtfully wrote:

>In article <g5es409ff12rigojt2cuc5fp0502becev9.RemoveThis@4ax.com>, nospam@nospam-
>anon.com.nospam.invalid says...
>> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:02:34 -0000, Also Sprach "Ellis"
>> <ellis_paul.RemoveThis@msn.comREMOVE> :
<snip>

>> What he said.
>> And stop reading that rag. It's a mag by wankers, for wankers.
<snip>
>
>But how do I know you're not a wanker ?

mm

>At least the writers are all
>'credible' and can prove it due to their roles in the industry (advisors
>to proffessional teams etc). I agree some of it is shite - letters
>asking how to buy socks!! - but there is some pretty decent content
>mostly. (and I've just taken up a 12month subscription so I'm stuck with
>it !)


--
http://www.bodybuildingtracker.com
Track your progress on-line free, no pop-ups or spam. (thanks Pet)
View my profile: (don't take the proverbial!
http://www.bodybuildingtracker.com/member_profiles.php?username=Dundonald
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ?? 

One last thing. The much better newsgroup for this sort of stuff is
"misc.fitness.weights" - if you still want answers, you should post there
instead (or as well).

Peter Webb


<wabbfamilyDIESPAMDIE RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:404f03b7$0$3958$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "NC" <me RemoveThis @home.com> wrote in message
> news:2ZC3c.27629$gC2.1850@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
> > Pet wrote:
> > > NC wrote:
> > >
> > >>> Note, [lease don't take this personally.
> > >>> :¬)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> Dont worry, I wont...
> > >
> > >
> > > :¬))
> > >
> >
> > On the other hand.. come on then.. what would you recommend I do ?
> > 6'1", 85kgs - reasonably athletic build with some decent(ish) muscle
> > definition. I want to lose more fat, improve overall fitness and start
> > building some size. Go to the gym 3 times a week at lunchtimes, have
> > about 1.5hrs time for each session (thats time on the gym floor - not
> > including showing etc etc)
> > Currently do 40mins (total) interval training on the treadmill and
> > eliptical trainer - varying from 30% to 100% effort (100% on the
> > treadmill, more like 70-80% on the eliptical). Prefer short sharp cardio
> > rather than spending hours plodding away and watching the TV.
> > Weights before cardio consisting of:
> > lat raise
> > lat pulldown
> > leg curl
> > leg raise
> > bicep curl
> > tricep curl
> > shoulder press
> > seated fly
> > Do one set of each at a weight where I can just manage 15 reps, then up
> > the weight by 2 on the stack and go til failure (usually about another
> > 4-5 reps)
> > Warm up on rower, then weights, then treadmill then eliptical
> > finally do 3 sets of 30 sit ups on the swiss ball with a moderate weight
> > behind my head (always finish the sets but just about kill myself!)
> > followed by 3 sets of 10 dorsal raises holding each for 2 secs.
>
> You should really have posted your routine at the start; there is far more
> scope for improvement in this area than by playing around with when you
have
> your goddam protein shake (BTW, loved the pun in the title).
>
> Firstly, enjoy your Men's Health magazine. Do not be surprised if the
advice
> in the March issue seems to totally contradict advice it will give you in
> the April issue. If its anything like the Australian issue, in an attempt
to
> keep telling their readers something new, they will tell you in May to
> benchpress with low reps/high weight, in June to benchpress only high
> reps/low weight, and in July not to benchpress at all.
>
> Secondly, the only supposed advantage of whey is its quick absorption.
> Useful for getting protein into your system quickly after a workout. It
has
> no advantage over more natural protein sources for next day consumption.
>
> Thirdly, your routine. I hope others will comment, but:
>
> * 15 reps is too much for maximum hypertrophy (muscle growth, what you
said
> you wanted). If you want to have different amounts for your two sets, go
> with 10/4 at most or 10/6 even better. Many people believe maximum
> hypertrophy occurs in the 6 - 8 rep range, which you miss completely.
>
> * 3 sets of 30 situps! Your f**king crazy! That must hurt like crazy. It
> won't give you huge ab muscles - like every other muscle, you develop your
> abs by doing far fewer reps at a challenging weight. Unless you get your
> body fat way down, nobody will ever see your abs (even if they are
hyooge),
> so there is somewhat less reason to build these up than there is for most
> other major muscle groups.
>
> * WTF is a "seated fly"? (or a "lat raise" or "leg raise" for that
matter).
> I assume a tricep curl is some exercise which involves straightening your
> elbow. Ditch it, and do bench presses instead - exercises both your
triceps
> and pecs in one exercise (4 muscles for the price of one!). I dunno what
> these leg exercises are, but you should be doing squats - having strong
> quadriceps (front of thigh) is very good cosmetically and for every day
use
> (helping move fridges etc).
>
> There is a lot more I could say, but hopefully you will get some more
> responses. If you don't, I encourage you to start a new thread ("critique
my
> routine") - this would be a lot more useful to you than having somebody
tell
> you when to drink your milkshake.
>
> HTH
>
>
> Peter Webb
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: When to Whey ??