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Since: Dec 04, 2006
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:40 pm
Post subject: Stiff-legged deadlifts
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)
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We had a (very informative) thread here a while back about somebody having
problems with increasing their squat weight and tipping to far forward
during a squat. There was a suggestion that the particular scenario
described (which I shared) might reflect weak hams and glutes relative to
quads a lower back.
I have never done stiff-legged deadlifts because I had heard/read how risky
they are for the back, but I was recently reading about how they can be used
with lighter weights as an endurance or conditioning exercise (never trying
to max out or exhaust) for the hams and glutes, focussing on contracting
those muscles during the lift. I tried them this weekend, and it does feel
good. (I've also been doing front squats for a while now, as someone
recommended in the aforementioned thread.)
Any thoughts on stiff-legged deadlifts? Anybody else seeing any results in
squats after focussing on hams and glutes?
ep |
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External
Since: Apr 26, 2006
Posts: 57
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Edna Pearl wrote:
> We had a (very informative) thread here a while back about somebody having
> problems with increasing their squat weight and tipping to far forward
> during a squat. There was a suggestion that the particular scenario
> described (which I shared) might reflect weak hams and glutes relative to
> quads a lower back.
>
> I have never done stiff-legged deadlifts because I had heard/read how risky
> they are for the back, but I was recently reading about how they can be used
> with lighter weights as an endurance or conditioning exercise (never trying
> to max out or exhaust) for the hams and glutes, focussing on contracting
> those muscles during the lift. I tried them this weekend, and it does feel
> good. (I've also been doing front squats for a while now, as someone
> recommended in the aforementioned thread.)
>
> Any thoughts on stiff-legged deadlifts? Anybody else seeing any results in
> squats after focussing on hams and glutes?
SL DeadLifts are great.
I do them once a week for 3 sets which is plenty as far as I am
concerned. Once a week I do SL DLs and squats. I go heavy and deep
and really do think that I need a full week to recover.
I think that with proper form SL DLs are no more dangerous than any
other excercise. When starting just try a few reps at a low weight and
keep trying until you know what the most challenging weight you can lift
is. But, really, you should be doing this anyway for any other
excersise, right?  |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:58 am
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Edna Pearl wrote:
> We had a (very informative) thread here a while back about somebody
> having problems with increasing their squat weight and tipping to far
> forward during a squat. There was a suggestion that the particular
> scenario described (which I shared) might reflect weak hams and
> glutes relative to quads a lower back.
>
> I have never done stiff-legged deadlifts because I had heard/read how
> risky they are for the back, but I was recently reading about how
> they can be used with lighter weights as an endurance or conditioning
> exercise (never trying to max out or exhaust) for the hams and
> glutes, focussing on contracting those muscles during the lift. I
> tried them this weekend, and it does feel good. (I've also been
> doing front squats for a while now, as someone recommended in the
> aforementioned thread.)
> Any thoughts on stiff-legged deadlifts?
They're an excellent exercise that target the hamstrings. Whoever told you
they were risky for the back presumably also warned you of the death risk of
crossing the road? Done properly they are perfectly safe for the back. Avoid
doing them list this:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBStraightLegDeadlift.html.
Do them like this:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hamstrings/BBStrBackStrLegDeadlift.html.
> Anybody else seeing any
> results in squats after focussing on hams and glutes?
>
> ep
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Aug 06, 2006
Posts: 25
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Pete ha escrito:
> http://www.ptjournal.org/cgi/reprint/86/5/683
>
>
> "That definitely defies conventional wisdom and MFW dogma, but it's
> hard to argue with those numbers. It appears that leg curls *are*
> better than squats for hamstring development, at least in terms of
> activation of the motor units." -- JMW
As someone else (Hobbes?) pointed out, this extract from the article
"Free-weight squats with a barbell. Subjects were standing upright with
a barbell
resting on the muscles of the neck just below the vertebra prominens.
The subjects descended in a controlled manner by flexing the knee and
hip simultaneously to a knee joint angle of approximately 100 degrees
and a hip joint angle of approximately 90 degrees and subsequently rose
in a similar fashion."
means that the comparision was with quarter-squats. A barely below
parallel squat, for my body, means a knee joint angle of about 60°.
Experience of the weightlifters has no relevance wrt this issue. >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>> Leg curls are better.
> Better - why?
Because the *primary* function of the hams is knee joint flexion. Hip joint
extension is secondary, as the glutes are the prime movers in that area.
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <457576c0$0$67828$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra.DeleteThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Bully" <bully1.DeleteThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
> >> Leg curls are better.
>
> > Better - why?
>
> Because the *primary* function of the hams is knee joint flexion. Hip joint
> extension is secondary, as the glutes are the prime movers in that area.
So what? In real life how often do you load the back of the ankles and
curl the thighs? Totally useless friggin' exercise.
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <1165349767.263846.240920 DeleteThis @f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Sag" <stickbow7 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> Pete ha escrito:
>
> > http://www.ptjournal.org/cgi/reprint/86/5/683
> >
> >
> > "That definitely defies conventional wisdom and MFW dogma, but it's
> > hard to argue with those numbers. It appears that leg curls *are*
> > better than squats for hamstring development, at least in terms of
> > activation of the motor units." -- JMW
>
>
> As someone else (Hobbes?) pointed out, this extract from the article
>
> "Free-weight squats with a barbell. Subjects were standing upright with
> a barbell
> resting on the muscles of the neck just below the vertebra prominens.
> The subjects descended in a controlled manner by flexing the knee and
> hip simultaneously to a knee joint angle of approximately 100 degrees
> and a hip joint angle of approximately 90 degrees and subsequently rose
> in a similar fashion."
>
> means that the comparision was with quarter-squats. A barely below
> parallel squat, for my body, means a knee joint angle of about 60?.
>
> Experience of the weightlifters has no relevance wrt this issue.
>
They were also untrained subjects. The study has little relevance to
experienced weightlifters who really squat.
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Hobbes" <khobman800 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> schreef:
>> >> Leg curls are better.
>> > Better - why?
>> Because the *primary* function of the hams is knee joint flexion. Hip
>> joint
>> extension is secondary, as the glutes are the prime movers in that area.
> So what?
Just what i said!
>In real life how often do you load the back of the ankles and
> curl the thighs? Totally useless friggin' exercise.
Oh really ?!?!?!
How many times in *real life* do you pull a 600 pound bar of the floor?
How many times in *real life* do you lie ON a bench, UNDER a bar ?!?!?!
Yeah, thought so...
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <457580e1$0$90828$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra.RemoveThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Hobbes" <khobman800.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> >> >> Leg curls are better.
>
> >> > Better - why?
>
> >> Because the *primary* function of the hams is knee joint flexion. Hip
> >> joint
> >> extension is secondary, as the glutes are the prime movers in that area.
>
> > So what?
>
> Just what i said!
>
> >In real life how often do you load the back of the ankles and
> > curl the thighs? Totally useless friggin' exercise.
>
> Oh really ?!?!?!
>
> How many times in *real life* do you pull a 600 pound bar of the floor?
Pull things off the floor lots of times, and I could make you look sick
doing so...
:^?
>
> How many times in *real life* do you lie ON a bench, UNDER a bar ?!?!?!
Agreed. The only good thing about the bench press is a chance to lie
down before you deadlift. Totally useless friggin' exercise. Wrecks the
shoulders and reduces ROM for throwing.
Which is why I am now an olympic weightlifter...
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Hobbes" <khobman800.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>> Leg curls are better. And safer.
> How?
Because thats their primary function.
Are there other muscle groups that flex the knee joint?
And they put less stress on the lower back.
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <45758145$0$41770$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra.DeleteThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Hobbes" <khobman800.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> >> Leg curls are better. And safer.
>
> > How?
>
> Because thats their primary function.
>
> Are there other muscle groups that flex the knee joint?
>
> And they put less stress on the lower back.
stress is good. distress is bad.
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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External
Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 1293
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Stiff-legged deadlifts [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:12:55 -0600, Hobbes <khobman800.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>In article <457576c0$0$67828$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
> "Pete" <phoutstra.DeleteThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
>> "Bully" <bully1.DeleteThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>>
>> >> Leg curls are better.
>>
>> > Better - why?
>>
>> Because the *primary* function of the hams is knee joint flexion. Hip joint
>> extension is secondary, as the glutes are the prime movers in that area.
>
>So what? In real life how often do you load the back of the ankles and
>curl the thighs? Totally useless friggin' exercise.
I do all my SLDLs with a clean grip with an extra shrug at the end.
Excellent compound movement. >> Stay informed about: Stiff-legged deadlifts |
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