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Shoulder / Military Press proportion to Bench Press

 
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Tom Anderson

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Since: May 02, 2006
Posts: 298



(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Shoulder / Military Press proportion to Bench Press [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)

On Sat, 9 Feb 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

> Dnia 2008-02-09 Tom Anderson napisa?(a):
>> On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>
>>> Don't use leg drive as long as you want to call it a military press.
>>
>> Hell no!
>
> Why "Hell no!"? What's wrong with a push-press?

Nothing. But that's now what i'm doing. We were talking about shoulder
presses, and if you're claiming you're doing shoulder presses, leg drive
is hell of out.

tom

--
Eight-bit is forever

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Jason Carlton

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Since: Dec 18, 2007
Posts: 9



(Msg. 17) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:15 am
Post subject: Re: Shoulder / Military Press proportion to Bench Press [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> Eh?  Sounds like you might have a power rack already, then!
>
> Here are, respectively, photos of a power rack and a Smith Machine:
>
> http://www.pacillo.com/products/tds_power_rack_b.jpg
>
> http://www.pro-fitness.com/catalog/pix.php?i=18
>
> Of course, there exist fancier versions, but those are the basic
> structures involved...the Smith Machine has vertical "rail tracks" on
> either side for smooth lifting, whereas a power rack is totally free-
> weight.  That means that with a Smith Machine, your range of motion or
> ROM is set for you, but the weight is stabilized (and therefore
> noticeably easier to lift), but with a power rack, the only thing it
> does for you is provide safety pins on either side to catch the weight
> should you fail (provided the pins are set at an appropriate height,
> of course).

I DEFINITELY have a power rack! It looks almost identical to the
picture you gave, except that mine has a lat bar attachment on the
back.

I bought it second-hand, but I would have never paid money for a Smith
machine like you described, and like what is pictured. Call me old
fashioned, but I'll never understand the point of buying equipment
that makes the exercise easier... if it was easy, it wouldn't be
called WORKing out!


> I tried googling images for it but came up empty -- guess it's been
> discontinued.  The Club Weiders I found looked like flimsy Walmart
> kind of equipment, though.  Ultimately, if you're satisfied with what
> you have, hey, it works for you.  No real arguing with that!

It probably was that flimsy Walmart POS, honestly. But, it's what I
could afford, and so far it's OK. I did replace the bar almost
immediately, but the safeties were all that I was interested in. I've
dropped 355lbs on it without a problem, so so far, so good.


> Many coaches don't really know sports training, they just do it for
> the extra cash.  That was the way with my high school track coach, Mr.
> Armstrong.  He was a Republican teaching social studies (USAUSAUSA)
> and he coached track by telling us to run, timing us, and showing up
> for meets.  That's it.  The golf teacher, Mr. Oilman, at least drove
> us to the golf course.  No, I didn't win any medals whatever.

Wow, at least mine wasn't that bad! Mine just didn't understand the
concept of overworking, and he encouraged us to do cycles twice a day,
every day. He did teach me about pyramids and proper form, though, so
I give him that much credit.

My entire senior year, my bench press went up by 20lbs, and I never
could figure out why. I thought that I had just hit a genetic peak,
and it was several years later when I learned to exercise muscle
groups together, once a week.


> "Blowing back in face"?  You mean purposely breathing on you?

I meant "blowing back in MY face"! Exactly what you said; as I would
take a deep breath and blow out, she would blow back in my face hard,
as if to say "if you're going to blow on me then I'll blow back".
Then, of course, she would laugh as if it were the cutest thing, and
while it WAS cute, it's very distracting. I would have to start over,
but my concentration would be shot.


> Yeah, I suppose that can be annoying.  I myself have to spot in a
> different way than most people since I am such a sweat-hog that I rain
> on people!  So I don't look down at them, and have to be especially
> sensitive to their needs through other cues besides visual ones
> ("aaaaarrrrrgggghhh!").  But it's actually helped me to be a better
> spotter, I think: I don't get nervous when I see them struggling and
> jump in too quick or too much, and I adopt a tae kwon do-style "horse
> stance" which is probably better in terms of physical leverage and my
> bad back, too.

I've grown to appreciate not having a spotter. Balance and keeping the
bar straight are completely on me, and I trust the safety bars enough
that I'm not afraid to push myself to the limit. I think that when I
was younger, I used to rely on the spotter keeping the bar straight
and even, so I never really had a good workout until this last year.

- J

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Prisoner at War

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Since: May 18, 2007
Posts: 98



(Msg. 18) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Shoulder / Military Press proportion to Bench Press [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 13, 4:15 am, Jason Carlton wrote:
>
>
>
> I DEFINITELY have a power rack! It looks almost identical to the
> picture you gave, except that mine has a lat bar attachment on the
> back.
>
> I bought it second-hand, but I would have never paid money for a Smith
> machine like you described, and like what is pictured. Call me old
> fashioned, but I'll never understand the point of buying equipment
> that makes the exercise easier... if it was easy, it wouldn't be
> called WORKing out!

Good news indeed! Yes, nothing like a power rack for lifting weights,
even if you do have a spotter! I'm not too sure myself what the point
of a Smith Machine is, either...seems like a power rack would still be
much safer to use in a case of catastrophic muscle failure! Yeah,
congrats on a power rack, then. That's the only way to make any real
progress in safety!

> It probably was that flimsy Walmart POS, honestly. But, it's what I
> could afford, and so far it's OK. I did replace the bar almost
> immediately, but the safeties were all that I was interested in. I've
> dropped 355lbs on it without a problem, so so far, so good.

Glad to hear it. I think one could probably judge the seriousness of
a gym by how many power racks it's got. Heck, insurers should give
discounts on liability premiums for each one installed!

> Wow, at least mine wasn't that bad! Mine just didn't understand the
> concept of overworking, and he encouraged us to do cycles twice a day,
> every day. He did teach me about pyramids and proper form, though, so
> I give him that much credit.

Well, according to "Lore of Running," the concept of overtraining
didn't really hit the mainstream until like the nineties, though there
were pioneers as early as the late '70s who realized that the harder
they trained the worse they performed.

> My entire senior year, my bench press went up by 20lbs, and I never
> could figure out why. I thought that I had just hit a genetic peak,
> and it was several years later when I learned to exercise muscle
> groups together, once a week.

Yeah, ye olde growth spurt! I never did a bench press until like age
22 or so, but I took to it immediately because it was just like a push-
up in reverse! Tickled me pink, actually...I didn't understand the
concept of "progressive overloading" and at first wondered why people
didn't just do more push-ups! Yes, as you can tell, I didn't go to an
"athletic school"....

> I meant "blowing back in MY face"! Exactly what you said; as I would
> take a deep breath and blow out, she would blow back in my face hard,
> as if to say "if you're going to blow on me then I'll blow back".
> Then, of course, she would laugh as if it were the cutest thing, and
> while it WAS cute, it's very distracting. I would have to start over,
> but my concentration would be shot.

Good grief, talk about your good old-fashioned passive-aggressive
female! She probably doesn't want to have anything to do with your
weights, but instead of telling you so, she does some passive-
aggressive thing like how females always do so that you will just not
ask her to help anymore -- sheesh!

> I've grown to appreciate not having a spotter. Balance and keeping the
> bar straight are completely on me, and I trust the safety bars enough
> that I'm not afraid to push myself to the limit.

Yeah, but man, nothing like forced reps for faster progress! Some
friendly guy, one of them sociable types in the gym who are always
chatting people up like he's running for public office, offered to
spot me Saturday or Sunday and man, I was stronger today on the bench
by myself than I had been in about two or three weeks! I really
believe in forced reps, not all the time, but most of the time, to
really get the muscle used to working beyond failure...same principle,
really, as that behind cheat reps on certain exercises -- every last
bit counts!

> I think that when I
> was younger, I used to rely on the spotter keeping the bar straight
> and even, so I never really had a good workout until this last year.

Ah, I was lucky, then: my spotters always made me lift the weight,
helping for only two or three seconds with a sticking point. That's
what you really need a spotter for -- forced reps! I'm even thinking
of hiring one of the bigger gymrats to spot me, that's how badly I
want one again now...I actually had a good case of DOMS thanks to that
Good Samaritan, something I never really get anymore at this
intermediate stage of fitness!

> - J
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