Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press

On Feb 5, 9:24 am, Tom Anderson <t....RemoveThis@urchin.earth.li> wrote:
[...]

> How can you respect or disrespect an inanimate object? Are you an animist
> or something, Burr?

Those are those guys who work for Pixar, right?

--
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

"Curt" <curtjames RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1d54d800-1a22-40dd-b3da-b2f9f194ada7@m34g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 4, 9:40 pm, "Burr" <pitzra... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "Curt" <curtja... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> > Again, Imma U.S. 'merican. I reserve the right to blame any and all
>> > nationalities, cultures, ethnicities, genders, this, that, and the
>> > other so long as I can avoid blame resting squarely on MY SHOULDERS!
>> > So there!
>>
>> Curt, would you please show respect for the name "America"???
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Burr
>
> What's your address in... the Philippines where I can send my apology
> letter, Capt. America? Thanks.
>
> Seriously, I'm coining a new term. I'll call it "ten-percent satire."
> Or use an old term that's respectful of America, Burr, it's called
> "freedom of speech."
>
> WHAT SAY YE??!??!!!
>
> --

Well Curt if you choose to disrespect America or to call it by any other
name then you are disrespecting yourself and America.

You make your chooses then I'll make mind!

Burr
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:43:21 -0800, Bob Feduniak wrote:

> .An embarrassingly obvious possible explanation just occurred to me.
> When you do a prone bench press (whether free weights or Smith
> machine) you need to fully extend your arms directly against the force
> of gravity. When you do a seated chest press, you need only extend
> your arms horizontally. That might explain why the prone press seems
> to put more demands on the triceps and delts.
>
> Bob F


Have You ever tried a dual-axis seated chest-press machine?
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Feb 5, 9:22 am, Tom Anderson <t... RemoveThis @urchin.earth.li> wrote:
>
>
> *facepalm*
>
> The point is that when you lift vertically, you're lifting the weight of
> your arms, as well as that of the weight stack, which you're not when
> you're lifting horizontally. Arms don't weigh a huge amount, but they're a
> few kilos, which is enough of a difference to be felt.

I think the effect is negligible, however. After all, you're also
pushing your arms along, in that sense, with a seated chest pressure
machine, too -- though the effect becomes even more negligible, but
that's really because of weight distribution.

> I still think stability is a bigger limiting factor in barbell bench vs
> machine chest presses.

If you're talking free-weight barbell flat bench and Smith Machine
barbell flat bench. But in Bob's scenario, it's because of "weight
distribution"...pushing horizontally, especially with a machine
supporting the weight, will be much more difficult than pushing
vertically against the full force of gravity...think of riding a bike
into headwinds as opposed to winds coming from the left or right
side....

> Does anyone have access to lever machines for both seated chest press and
> lying bench press? We had both at an old gym of mine, but not at my
> current one. It would be interesting to get a comparison between those
> two, plus a barbell bench.

I think our intuitive sense of gravity can easily allow us to imagine
the outcome: a lying chest press machine would be harder than a seated
chest press machine -- lying down, you're pushing up, against the full
force of gravity; seated, you're pushing forward, with a much reduced
gravitational effect.

Note, however, that a lying chest press machine would also be easier
than a free-weight barbell flat bench press because the machine still
has a "support structure" to hold up the weights -- with a machine,
you only lift, whereas with free-weights you both lift and "support"
the weight.

> tom
>
> --
> Mathematics is the door and the key to the sciences. -- Roger Bacon
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Feb 5, 8:08 pm, Bob Feduniak <robertfedun... RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> No. I've not heard of them, but I'll look into it.

Dual-axis, as in, replicating the action of a dumbbell flat bench
press??

> I think Tom Anderson hit the nail on the head in his post above when
> he said"
>
> <quote>
> The point is that when you lift vertically, you're lifting the weight
> of
> your arms, as well as that of the weight stack, which you're not when
> you're lifting horizontally. Arms don't weigh a huge amount, but
> they're a
> few kilos, which is enough of a difference to be felt.
> <end quote>

That's negligible. You're still pushing your arms' weight with a
seated chest press machine.

No, what's the real factor is simply gravity's effects. Sure y'all
understand that it's much harder to throw something straight up than
straight across???

Imagine a shot put. Now ask yourself whether it would be easier
throwing it vertically or horizontally.

> Bob F
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008, Burr wrote:

> "Curt" <curtjames DeleteThis @gmail.com>
>>
>>> Well Curt if you choose to disrespect America or to call it by any other
>>> name then you are disrespecting yourself and America.
>>
>> Perhaps I didn't put a fine enough point on it.
>>
>>> You make your chooses then I'll make mind!
>>
>> English, please.
>
> I voted for Bush twice and I think he will be the worst president we have
> ever had.

That kind of makes it sound like you deliberately voted to get the worst
president ever.

Plus, bad as Bush II might be, there have been worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worst_president

James Buchanan was pretty rubbish.

> No, you can Criticize all you want just be sure you spell America right!!!

I'm with Burr on this. Curt, if you don't spell America right, how can we
tell which country you're being unpatriotic about?

> Yes, I respect the USA and no I don't like what they have done.
>
> You can cuss the USA but just spell it right and respect the flag, a lot of
> men died for "The Flag"

No, nobody died for The Flag. They died to protect their countrymen. The
flag is just a symbol of something worth defending; don't mistake the
symbol for the people. The same goes for the country itself - America is
just a legal structure; it's the people who live in the area it covers who
variously do or do not deserve respect.

> And if you lived over seas you would appreciate even more, with our
> faults we are still the greatest country in the world.

ITYM second greatest. And 'north america', rather than 'the world'. HTH.

tom

--
You knows it!
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

I'd never posted in (or even read) this newsgroup before, and thought
I might not get any responses to my post. That certainly turned out
to be one of my most off-base concerns so far this year.

I tried a two-part experiment yesterday. First, I sat on the bench
and did 75 seated chest presses with zero pounds--just going through
the motion with my arms. s
Second, after resting 20 minutes or so, I did the same thing lying on
the bench and doing 75 regular bench presses with zero pounds--just my
arms. I felt a big difference. Since there were no weights, stacks,
pulleys, etc. involved, I think this supports Tom's "weight of the
arms" theory. It also seems to support the theory that I have too
much time on my hands.

Bob F
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Feb 6, 7:03 am, "Burr" <pitzra....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Curt" <curtja....RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>
> >> Well Curt if you choose to disrespect America or to call it by any other
> >> name then you are disrespecting yourself and America.
>
> > Perhaps I didn't put a fine enough point on it.
>
> > Burr, how many years did you serve the United States as a member of
> > any of its military branches? Where do you currently reside? Are you
> > paying U.S. income tax at the present time? Are you voting absentee or
> > have you voted absentee recently or during your years overseas? Do you
> > think the U.S. with Bush at the helm has made a name for itself so far
> > as a positive impression worldwide? Is it unpatriotic to criticize
> > what you believe is wrong? Do you think it's impossible to be
> > respectful of your country while simultaneously being disappointed in
> > the direction or path it's currently on?
>
> > In other words, you're being simplistic at best.
>
> >> You make your chooses then I'll make mind!
>
> > English, please.
>
> >> Burr
>
> >
>
> In Service, 3 years, six months, three days, 5 hours and 15 minutes.

Did you get shot at? At least one time?

I did five years in the U.S. military and our ship got shot at at
least one time.

Okay, it was a mistake by a fellow NATO ship during a wave-the-flag
cruise, but still.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR YOUR COUNTRY, BURR???!?

> Reside in The Philippines @ this time.

And I'll spell that f-a-l-l-o-p-i-a-n-s if I'm making some goofy
satirical quote. Like it or lump it, Burr. You're welcome to come to
Carlisle and *JUST TRY* to confiscate my keyboard, pal!

Serioulsy, move to the U.S. BEFORE the next time you want to criticize
me for disrespecting America. Grace the country with your presence,
okay?

> Yes, I pay US taxes!

Yay!

> Yes, I vote I voted for Bush twice and I think he will be the worst president we have
> ever had.

Okay, once I can maybe excuse but TWICE? What were you thinking???

> No, you can Criticize all you want just be sure you spell America right!!!

To your criticism on my spelling, did you take me seriously? I wrote:

"Again, Imma U.S. 'merican. I reserve the right to blame any and all
nationalities, cultures, ethnicities, genders, this, that, and the
other so long as I can avoid blame resting squarely on MY SHOULDERS!
So there!"

So you'd prefer that my hillbillyredneck satirical character spell
America correctly? No complaints about the blaming everyone to avoid
taking responsibility for inappropriate if not illegal actions?

Gotcha.

Please hold your flag higher as you wave it. Thank you!

> Yes, I respect the USA and no I don't like what they have done.

What does it matter so long as everyone spells America correctly,
though, right?

> You can cuss the USA but just spell it right and respect the flag, a lot of
> men died for "The Flag"
> And if you lived over seas you would appreciate even more, with our faults
> we are still the greatest country in the world.

And you're the greatest and most patriotic nitpicker. Kudos on that!

> Burr

--
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Feb 6, 4:40 pm, Bob Feduniak <robertfedun... RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote:
> I'd never posted in (or even read) this newsgroup before, and thought
> I might not get any responses to my post. That certainly turned out
> to be one of my most off-base concerns so far this year.

LOL!! You shoulda been here back in the "good ol' days" when some
self-appointed moderators would have told you, in all-caps, to "google
it!" and "die moron diiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!"

> I tried a two-part experiment yesterday. First, I sat on the bench
> and did 75 seated chest presses with zero pounds--just going through
> the motion with my arms. s
> Second, after resting 20 minutes or so, I did the same thing lying on
> the bench and doing 75 regular bench presses with zero pounds--just my
> arms. I felt a big difference. Since there were no weights, stacks,
> pulleys, etc. involved, I think this supports Tom's "weight of the
> arms" theory.

Whhaaat????

That difference you're feeling is due to gravity, not the weight of
your arms! Since the weight was the same, they "cancel out" in any
consideration -- which means they're not factors! What *is* different
-- which is what you're looking for, right: anytime you're looking for
an explanation, you're looking at what's *different* between two
similar cases -- is the *direction* of the push.

So why would a different direction matter?

Going vertically, you're going 100% against gravity.

Going horizontally, you're going maybe only 70% against gravity.

Again, just ask yourself: why is it harder to throw a shot put
straight up than straight across?

> It also seems to support the theory that I have too
> much time on my hands.

And they weigh nothing at all! Is that why time flies so fast??

> Bob F
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Feb 6, 7:42 pm, "Burr" <pitzra... RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Curt" <curtja... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>
> > I did five years in the U.S. military and our ship got shot at at
> > least one time.
>
> > Okay, it was a mistake by a fellow NATO ship during a wave-the-flag
> > cruise, but still.
>
> IF--king Squid, if you did five years you must have been a "Officer"????
>
> Burr

heh

I was a JO, but not a junior officer - a journalist. Plenty of
collateral duties, though. Anyway, I'll spell America anyway you say,
Mr. Nam. I was in during the Reagan years. Pretty quiet sailing then.

--
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

On Feb 6, 4:57 pm, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 6, 4:40 pm, Bob Feduniak <robertfedun....TakeThisOut@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd never posted in (or even read) this newsgroup before, and thought
> > I might not get any responses to my post. That certainly turned out
> > to be one of my most off-base concerns so far this year.
>
> LOL!! You shoulda been here back in the "good ol' days" when some
> self-appointed moderators would have told you, in all-caps, to "google
> it!" and "die moron diiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee!!!!"
>
> > I tried a two-part experiment yesterday. First, I sat on the bench
> > and did 75 seated chest presses with zero pounds--just going through
> > the motion with my arms. s
> > Second, after resting 20 minutes or so, I did the same thing lying on
> > the bench and doing 75 regular bench presses with zero pounds--just my
> > arms. I felt a big difference. Since there were no weights, stacks,
> > pulleys, etc. involved, I think this supports Tom's "weight of the
> > arms" theory.
>
> Whhaaat????
>
> That difference you're feeling is due to gravity, not the weight of
> your arms! Since the weight was the same, they "cancel out" in any
> consideration -- which means they're not factors! What *is* different
> -- which is what you're looking for, right: anytime you're looking for
> an explanation, you're looking at what's *different* between two
> similar cases -- is the *direction* of the push.
>
> So why would a different direction matter?
>
> Going vertically, you're going 100% against gravity.
>
> Going horizontally, you're going maybe only 70% against gravity.
>
> Again, just ask yourself: why is it harder to throw a shot put
> straight up than straight across?
>
> > It also seems to support the theory that I have too
> > much time on my hands.
>
> And they weigh nothing at all! Is that why time flies so fast??
>
> > Bob F

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways.

Bob F
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

"Curt" <curtjames RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>> >
>>
>> Well Curt if you choose to disrespect America or to call it by any other
>> name then you are disrespecting yourself and America.
>
> Perhaps I didn't put a fine enough point on it.
>
> Burr, how many years did you serve the United States as a member of
> any of its military branches? Where do you currently reside? Are you
> paying U.S. income tax at the present time? Are you voting absentee or
> have you voted absentee recently or during your years overseas? Do you
> think the U.S. with Bush at the helm has made a name for itself so far
> as a positive impression worldwide? Is it unpatriotic to criticize
> what you believe is wrong? Do you think it's impossible to be
> respectful of your country while simultaneously being disappointed in
> the direction or path it's currently on?
>
> In other words, you're being simplistic at best.
>
>> You make your chooses then I'll make mind!
>
> English, please.
>
>
>>
>> Burr
>
>
> --

In Service, 3 years, six months, three days, 5 hours and 15 minutes.
Reside in The Philippines @ this time.
Yes, I pay US taxes! Yes, I vote
I voted for Bush twice and I think he will be the worst president we have
ever had.
No, you can Criticize all you want just be sure you spell America right!!!
Yes, I respect the USA and no I don't like what they have done.

You can cuss the USA but just spell it right and respect the flag, a lot of
men died for "The Flag"
And if you lived over seas you would appreciate even more, with our faults
we are still the greatest country in the world.

Burr
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press 

"Curt" <curtjames DeleteThis @gmail.com>
>> >
>>
>> In Service, 3 years, six months, three days, 5 hours and 15 minutes.
>
> Did you get shot at? At least one time?
>
I did Nam, just below the DMZ, "Pho Bai, Hue and Quang Tri.

In the service and then back as a Civilian!

Did my time in the trenches.

Burr
 >> Stay informed about: Seated Chest Press vs Smith Machine Bench Press