Pain in Lat when benching

> Are you not doing anything for your upper back? If so, you're really
> risking your shoulders by creating a strength imbalance across the
> joint! You should be doing at LEAST as much exercise for the upper
body
> pulling movements as you are for upper body pressing (in my opinion,
> more time should be spent training upper body pulling movements, but
> equal time is a minimum).
>

I am deadlifting once a week for 5 sets, and behind the neck shoulder
press also once a week, I may be wrong, but I think between these two
exercises, they partially or fully work the upper back, if not can you
recommend any other upper back workouts?
all the working out is done at home, I have an olympic bench, barbell
and weights, plus dumbbells. so no resistence machines as such,
although I can put the barbell up between two beams in the ceiling to
do lat pull ups, I can only lift my self up for 2 or 3 reps!

cheers
 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching 

Ok full routine,
Mainly strength training(my workouts are based on achieving 4 sets of 8
reps(32) successfully before moving up on weight.

Tuesday
5 Sets of Flat benching(1 Warmup on 60Kg 4 on 75KG to Failier)
4 Sets of incline benching(60Kg)

Thursday
5 Sets of Deadlifts(1 80 Kg warmup and 4 120KG at the mo)

Saturday

5 sets of behind the neck shoulder press(1 40kg warmup and 4 on 55Kg )
4 Sets of French press 40KG
4 Sets of dumbell tricep extensions on each arm (10kg)
4 Sets of Twisted Bicep Curls(10kg each arm)
4 Sets of Straight Arm Bicep curls(25KG)

I have listed the equipment, previously

With the knowledge that I am still a beginner compared to a lot of
people on here, I always try and maintain technique and form above
everything else and always ask my training parner to watch for it. Do
you think this routine is missing lots of important elements, I can
probably afford to buy some more equipment soon (Would like olympic
dumbells on a rack, its a pain using the spin lock ones) and maybe a
multigym for rows?
I am once more grateful for your advice

Austin
 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching 

aust_powers RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been lifting weight for just over a year now, I started very
> light(very skinny) and have slowly worked my way up(only up to 75KG on
> bench) but my rate of increase has been consistent, until about 3
> months ago.
>
> I am finding that near the end of my set, I am getting a pain down my
> right hand side(just under my armpit, towards my back. I am thinking
> its my lat. Up until this weight I have been fine, it seems this weight
> is giving me trouble(although I feel ok with it)
>
> I can't push it too much and find I have to go back to 70kg because I
> start losing strengh. 70kg feels so much lighter, but 75kg seems to be
> the sticking point. I train back, arms and chest of separate days,
> however I don't specifically do any lat work, I know the lats play a
> part in the bench press, but will I have to do a specific excercise to
> target lats?
>
> or should I try varying grip or technique? I feel I have only really
> started and would like to think I can get past this point to keep
> going, any help would be much appreciated
>
> Austin
>

Well, it could be the lat tendon, but I think it's more likely a rotator
cuff problem (given the exercise and that the pain seems to go to the
back of the shoulder and not down to the lower back). I get the same
thing with overhead presses when my 'cuff muscles become too fatigued to
properly support the joint as I tire (and use slightly too much weight).
Unforetunately, I can't view your bench press form (and it's minor
details that sometimes make a big difference, but then again, some
people do some really majorly wierd bench presses) and I don't know if
you're doing specific strengthening for the external rotator muscles,
such as l-flyes (dumbbell or cable external rotation). Have you tried
switching to incline bench presses? Some people have a much easier time
with these, and if you're not training for a powerlifting competition
this exercise substitution is quite reasonable, especially since it's
being done to protect your shoulders!

Ari

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I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
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 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching 

aust_powers.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> hi thanks for your response,
>
> I do incline as well, and don't have any trouble with that!,

Not everyone is suited to every exercise long term. I would have
progressed much better had I stopped trying to deadlift and just stuck
with squats, as my body just did not work with deadlifts of any sort. If
incline bench presses work better for your body, perhaps they're a
better choice for you (at least for the time being).

> I have had
> a rotator cuff problem on my left shoulder before from using too much
> weight on twisted biceps(that was a bugger) and managed to strengthen
> it back to normal with gentle excercise, It probably is the lat, its a
> lot lower down.
> Should I try doing some specific lat exercises (maybe lat pullups?)

Are you not doing anything for your upper back? If so, you're really
risking your shoulders by creating a strength imbalance across the
joint! You should be doing at LEAST as much exercise for the upper body
pulling movements as you are for upper body pressing (in my opinion,
more time should be spent training upper body pulling movements, but
equal time is a minimum).

> Like I say I have tried dropping the weight and working back up to it,
> leaving it for a week, but like my rotator cuff, gentle excercise seems
> to be the solution to some injuries.
>
> cheers
>


--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching 

aust_powers DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>>Are you not doing anything for your upper back? If so, you're really
>>risking your shoulders by creating a strength imbalance across the
>>joint! You should be doing at LEAST as much exercise for the upper
>
> body
>
>>pulling movements as you are for upper body pressing (in my opinion,
>>more time should be spent training upper body pulling movements, but
>>equal time is a minimum).
>>
>
>
> I am deadlifting once a week for 5 sets,

That's a start, but you really need more of a direct exercise for the
rear deltoids and other pulling muscles.

> and behind the neck shoulder
> press

*winces* *rubs shoulder in rememberance of 'cuff pain*

I strongly suggest you stop putting the bar behind your neck...please...

> also once a week, I may be wrong, but I think between these two
> exercises, they partially or fully work the upper back, if not can you
> recommend any other upper back workouts?

I'd simply add a row (there is some coverage with the deadlift, but it
varies from person to person especially with the individual variations
on form), either barbell, one arm dumbbell, seated cable, machine, etc
to balance out the upper body pressing. Pullups are good too, but they
can in some cases assist in the shoulders rounding forward. I use a
pullup type movement and a rowing movement as part of my upper body day
training.

I also always at least balance the number of work sets I'm doing between
upper body pressing and upper body pulling movements. You're doing bench
presses, incline presses, and shoulder presses...and only balancing that
with deadlifts. In my opinion, that's not a good scenario for
maintaining strength balance across the shoulders. I suggest adding a
row and a pullup or pulldown, and dropping either the bench or the
incline (probably the flat bench, as that's hurting you at the moment).

Take this recommendation in the knowledge that you have not posted your
full routine here, and I'm answering you with a generality when I'd
prefer to be answering (at this point) with the specifics you desire
(hint: post your complete routine please).

> all the working out is done at home, I have an olympic bench, barbell
> and weights, plus dumbbells. so no resistence machines as such,
> although I can put the barbell up between two beams in the ceiling to
> do lat pull ups, I can only lift my self up for 2 or 3 reps!

I'm not sure what your means are at the moment, but a base model
bodysolid power rack is not too expensive, and when doing bench presses
it's a great safety feature. It will also enable you to do pullups
without having to muck about with putting the barbell up over the beams.
There are also several varieties of removeable doorway pullup bar (one
is called the door gym, but I've seen and used better models...a google
groups search of this newsgroup will find repeated discussions about
these). The ceiling beams might reduce your variety of hand spacing and
range of motion.

Ari


--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching 

Dnia 2005-05-19 aust_powers.RemoveThis@yahoo.com napisa³(a):
> Ok full routine,
> Mainly strength training(my workouts are based on achieving 4 sets of 8
> reps(32) successfully before moving up on weight.
>
> Tuesday
> 5 Sets of Flat benching(1 Warmup on 60Kg 4 on 75KG to Failier)
> 4 Sets of incline benching(60Kg)

Drop flat bench. Do bent over rows instead. After inclines, if you
like.

> Thursday
> 5 Sets of Deadlifts(1 80 Kg warmup and 4 120KG at the mo)
>
> Saturday
>
> 5 sets of behind the neck shoulder press(1 40kg warmup and 4 on 55Kg )

Replace it with military presses.

> 4 Sets of French press 40KG

I'd do close grip bench preses instead. Or skull crushers, if you
really need to do some foo-foo tricep stuff.

> 4 Sets of dumbell tricep extensions on each arm (10kg)

I'd drop these.

> 4 Sets of Twisted Bicep Curls(10kg each arm)

I'd drop these. Chinups with underhand grip are much better.

> 4 Sets of Straight Arm Bicep curls(25KG)
>
> I have listed the equipment, previously

It is all right. You do not have to buy anything, but chinup bars can
be had very cheap.

> With the knowledge that I am still a beginner compared to a lot of
> people on here, I always try and maintain technique and form above
> everything else and always ask my training parner to watch for it.

That is good, but remember to balance pushing movements with equal
number of pulling movements. Deadlifts are not enough.

> Do
> you think this routine is missing lots of important elements,

Sure. You do not train your back and not much of your quads. Split
squats should do you some good.

> I can
> probably afford to buy some more equipment soon

It is not necessary. You can have balanced workout with what you
already have.

> (Would like olympic
> dumbells on a rack, its a pain using the spin lock ones) and maybe a
> multigym for rows?

If I planned to spend so much money I would buy power rack.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching 

aust_powers.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Ok full routine,
> Mainly strength training(my workouts are based on achieving 4 sets of 8
> reps(32) successfully before moving up on weight.
>

Do you do a general warm up, like 10 minutes biking or jogging?

> Tuesday
> 5 Sets of Flat benching(1 Warmup on 60Kg 4 on 75KG to Failier)

I strongly suggest you add a warmup set when doing flat benches (at
least one extra warmup set). Do your first warmup at 50% of your
training weight for that day, your second at 75%, and then do your first
training set.

> 4 Sets of incline benching(60Kg)

Pick flat or incline, there's no real need to do both.

>
> Thursday
> 5 Sets of Deadlifts(1 80 Kg warmup and 4 120KG at the mo)
>
> Saturday
>
> 5 sets of behind the neck shoulder press(1 40kg warmup and 4 on 55Kg )
> 4 Sets of French press 40KG
> 4 Sets of dumbell tricep extensions on each arm (10kg)
> 4 Sets of Twisted Bicep Curls(10kg each arm)
> 4 Sets of Straight Arm Bicep curls(25KG)
>
> I have listed the equipment, previously
>
> With the knowledge that I am still a beginner compared to a lot of
> people on here, I always try and maintain technique and form above
> everything else and always ask my training parner to watch for it.

Good, keep it up. Form is more important than trainng to failure (I no
longer believe that training to failure is a good thing at all).

> Do
> you think this routine is missing lots of important elements,

Like I've said before, far too much pressing and no real targetted upper
back work. You should be doing at least as many work sets for your upper
back as you are for upper body pressing movements. I would advise
dropping either the flat or incline bench press and replacing it with a
row of some sort. One arm row, barbell row, or dumbbell row (some people
will argue for the one arm row, stating that the other two are risky for
the lower back...this may or may not apply to you). You could also try
adding pullups, but you must make sure to keep your form good and not be
discouraged into letting yourself hunch your shoulders forward to get
your chin over the bar. Pull your shoulders back and down as you're
doing the same for your elbows. Maybe a row on Tuesday to balance the
bench press (or the incline press) and a pullup on Saturday. Please
replace the behind the neck press with a standard barbell press (in
front of the neck). Oh, and have a spotter with you for bench pressing,
especially now that you're having some pain during it.

> I can
> probably afford to buy some more equipment soon (Would like olympic
> dumbells on a rack, its a pain using the spin lock ones) and maybe a
> multigym for rows?

Personally, I'd go for a power rack first. It'd probably be less
expensive than either of the two things you just mentioned. I'm still
using my original BodySolid base model of power rack and I love it. For
now, you might want to look into a door gym device for pullups. Do a
search for "door gym" on ebay.com and you'll get a bunch of items,
including ones like this, which is what you're looking for:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=44081&item=7157...081&rd=

Careful, some of these sellers charge a lot extra for shipping than
others do.





> I am once more grateful for your advice
>
> Austin
>


--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
 >> Stay informed about: Pain in Lat when benching