Another Nutrition Question (Calories and Protein)

<xmp333.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> schreef:

> In trying to put on muscle mass (on my chest), I read that we need to
> consume more calories. However, how do we guarantee that this puts on
> lean muscle mass instead of fat?

No.

> Does the workout routine convert the additional calories to muscle mass?

Maybe.

> I ask because whenever I increased
> my caloric intake, I noticed some muscle gains, but my waistline
> increased as well. Any suggestions?

Build as much mass as you can, then diet.

> In addition, how does protein fit into the equation? For instance, if
> we eat low calories, but get a large amount of protein, how does this
> affect muscle mass?

In a negative way.

----
Pete
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On Oct 6, 10:14 am, xmp... DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm 6'2, and around 195lbs. I think I put on about 9 lbs of muscle
> mass via bodyweight exercises (calisthenics), which is great by me. On
> a typical day, I get around 1200 calories... and I'm not starving
> myself. I'd have to push to get 1800. My main goal is to add some
> mass to my chest. Not going for a body-builder look or anything, just
> a bit more mass.


At eating only 1200 calories a day, you wouldnt've put on '9lbs of
muscle' by doing any kind of exercise as you dont have a 'surplus' of
calories. You more likely lost bodyfat which made any muscles you had
more defined and noticable.
1200 to 1800 calories is not enough to support mass gains for your
height/weight. You would need to be eating at the very least 10x your
bodyweight and more likely 15x your body weight. If you cant fathom
eating that much food you need to learn more about nutrition and how to
have quality/density of calories over volume. No need for protein
powders unless you find them convenient.
John Bernardi writes some worthwhile articles on 'Mass Eating' - here's
a link to a food calculator and you can backtrack to read more:
http://johnberardi.com/updates/july262002/na_masscalculator.htm
For some recipe ideas: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/likness7.htm
You can workout any way you like, but if your nutrition isnt spot on
(and enough calories) you wont gain even a popeye muscle.


joanne
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joanne wrote:
[...]

> You can workout any way you like, but if your nutrition
> isnt spot on (and enough calories) you wont gain even
> a popeye muscle.

B-b-but those FOREARMS!

> joanne

--
Curt
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> At eating only 1200 calories a day, you wouldnt've put on '9lbs of
> muscle' by doing any kind of exercise as you dont have a 'surplus' of
> calories. You more likely lost bodyfat which made any muscles you had
> more defined and noticable.

The scale reports a significant weight gain -- up from 186. Granted,
scales aren't necessarily accurate, but I wouldn't think they'd be this
inaccurate. Given the weight gain, the fact that my clothes fit about
the same, and the increased definition and some bulk (my forearms are
definitely bigger, in fact, they're now bigger than my upper arms so
I'm looking like Popeye!) I can't see what else could be happening.

I'll visit the other links you provided -- thanks.


Cya,
Ahmed
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Shute wrote:

> Are you weighing yourself on a doctor's scale? Gym's have this type
> and they are the only accurate scales. The typical bathroom scale can
> be off quite a bit. It is also best to weight yourself during the
> same time each day with little clothes on. If you just ate a meal or
> are wearing different clothing that can change the numbers a lot. I
> like to weigh myself first thing in the morning when I get up.

I wieghed myself on different bathroom scales. I also was weighed on a
doctor's scale (before I started working out) and on bathroom scales
and found they were close enough, so I really doubt these scales are
that off. And a 9lb difference in scales is extreme. I also weigh
myself before meals and empty the contents of my pockets (and don't
wear any shoes). Of course, one has to factor in the contents of the
previous meal if one didn't get rid of it, etc...

In any case, I'll modify my diet to increase my calories. I played
with one of the links, but the questions asked were fuzzy (just what is
"moderate protein intake"?). In any case, the answers I got after
tweaking various variables ranged from 3500-4600 calories!

I guess my biggest concern is adding body-fat. I have a 34" waist
(give or take) that I want to keep, and I don't know what will
guarantee that those extra calories just won't go into fat. I don't
want a gut. Maybe I just need to increase a little? Say from
1800-2000?


Thanks.
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On Oct 9, 8:02 am, plan9... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> I guess my biggest concern is adding body-fat.I have a 34" waist
> (give or take) that I want to keep, and I don't know what will
> guarantee that those extra calories just won't go into fat. I don't
> want a gut. Maybe I just need to increase a little? Say from
> 1800-2000?

Moderation (and extra 500 calories a day) would be a good way to start.
You didnt say if you tracked calories manually or online.
I would highly recommend FitDay or DietPower which will also give you
the nutritional breakdown of what you are eating (protein/carbs/fats)
and other detailed info that could be an eye opener.
http://www.fitday.com or http://www.dietpower.com/
I think many guys go way overboard by increasing their food too soon
for the amount of exercise they are doing (or underestimate their
intensitylevel). If you are sedentary most of the time and workout say
an hour or so a day thats not really much calorie burning going on. Its
still a calorie in calorie out thing and if you dont use the increased
calories yes, it will layer on as mostly fat. As you increase the
eating you may need to increase your daily activities to try and avoid
this as much as possible or that 34inch waistline may expand. So
moderately increase your calories.
This reminds me of an MTV show I was watching last night about
competitive eating. The guys they tracked were training for the Nathans
hotdog competition/wings eat off. Surprisingly these guys were totally
buff and not the usual big fat guys you think of in such competions.
The previous champion from Japan has gone from a rather skinny to
muscular build and it followed him thru his training heavy at a local
gym and then to a place where he ate about 22lbs of noodle type foods
and another day where he ate around 100 small plates of dimsum style
foods. What a metabolism he must have!


joanne
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joanne wrote:
> On Oct 6, 10:14 am, xmp....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I'm 6'2, and around 195lbs. I think I put on about 9 lbs of muscle
> > mass via bodyweight exercises (calisthenics), which is great by me. On
> > a typical day, I get around 1200 calories... and I'm not starving
> > myself. I'd have to push to get 1800. My main goal is to add some
> > mass to my chest. Not going for a body-builder look or anything, just
> > a bit more mass.
>
>
> At eating only 1200 calories a day, you wouldnt've put on '9lbs of
> muscle' by doing any kind of exercise as you dont have a 'surplus' of
> calories. You more likely lost bodyfat which made any muscles you had
> more defined and noticable.
> 1200 to 1800 calories is not enough to support mass gains for your
> height/weight. You would need to be eating at the very least 10x your
> bodyweight and more likely 15x your body weight.

i don't know... the body's a wacky thing... i'm 6', and started a
calorie restricted diet based on the velocity diet
(http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=546491&pageNo=0) at 178lbs,
~15% body fat, trying to get down to about 10%. based on the
recommendations for the diet, i'm eating 1300-1600 calories a day
(about 1/2 what i was previously eating, and i'm keeping meticulous
records of what i eat), low carb (max 100g / day), and in the first 7
days i increased about 5 lbs (subsequently started decreasing). i
definately look thinner, especially in the face, activity level is the
same... no idea WHY the weight went up....
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joanne wrote:
> On Oct 9, 8:02 am, plan9....RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> > I guess my biggest concern is adding body-fat.I have a 34" waist
> > (give or take) that I want to keep, and I don't know what will
> > guarantee that those extra calories just won't go into fat. I don't
> > want a gut. Maybe I just need to increase a little? Say from
> > 1800-2000?
>
> Moderation (and extra 500 calories a day) would be a good way to start.
> You didnt say if you tracked calories manually or online.

I track calories using a spreadsheet. I put in the numbers I'm trying
to achieve (calories and protein) and it computes what I consumed so
far and how much I have to go. I had set it up so that the target was
1800 calories and 180 grams of protein per day, but I rarely hit the
mark on the calories or protein. I tended to oscillate between 1200
and 1600. So I'll take your advice and add 500 to what I was normally
achieving and figure 2000 and make an effort to achieve that. Also,
given my weight is now 195, I've upped my protein requirements to 195
grams per day.

I also realize why I put on muscle mass even though I was consuming so
little. It happened because this small amount was actually more than I
was consuming before! I guesstimate I was doing well under 1,000
calories per day on weekdays (with some days easily being as low as 600
calories). My caloric intake increased once I started working out and
added lean meats to my diet; prior to that, I was on a pretty strict
version of "Eat to Live".

I just went shopping and bought some higher calorie foods, but ones
that are still healthy. Whole grain breads (which I didn't eat
before), eggs, some dried fruit, bannanas, peanut butter, and some
protein bars as a desperation move. If I don't get my required
calories, I'll make a high protein/high calorie smoothie or wolf down
some protein bars. As time goes on, if I'm doing well, I'll gradually
increase the caloric intake.



> I think many guys go way overboard by increasing their food too soon
> for the amount of exercise they are doing (or underestimate their
> intensitylevel). If you are sedentary most of the time and workout say
> an hour or so a day thats not really much calorie burning going on.

On weekdays, I bike. I'll do 5 miles in the morning, 5 miles in the
evening, and sometimes 10 miles at lunch. I always take the stairs (I
only work on the 2nd floor). In addition to all this is my bodyweight
exercises and my tabata intervals. I don't quite know what activity
level that puts me at...



> This reminds me of an MTV show I was watching last night about
> competitive eating. The guys they tracked were training for the Nathans
> hotdog competition/wings eat off. Surprisingly these guys were totally
> buff and not the usual big fat guys you think of in such competions.
> The previous champion from Japan has gone from a rather skinny to
> muscular build and it followed him thru his training heavy at a local
> gym and then to a place where he ate about 22lbs of noodle type foods
> and another day where he ate around 100 small plates of dimsum style
> foods. What a metabolism he must have!

Yeah, tell me about it. I can actually eat horrific amounts of food,
and can out-eat anyone I know. I once put away 32 slices of pizza for
lunch (and was hungry when dinner time came), and regularly order 2
large salads if I go out to eat. Most days, I eat large amounts of
very calorically light foods (tons of salads) which is why I haven't
ballooned, but I think I have a reasonably fast metabolism as well.



> joanne


Thanks for the advice. I'm going to follow it!


Take care.
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JMW wrote:
> "ed" <news DeleteThis @atwistedweb.com> wrote:
<snip>
> >i don't know... the body's a wacky thing... i'm 6', and started a
> >calorie restricted diet based on the velocity diet
> >(http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=546491&pageNo=0) at 178lbs,
> >~15% body fat, trying to get down to about 10%. based on the
> >recommendations for the diet, i'm eating 1300-1600 calories a day
> >(about 1/2 what i was previously eating, and i'm keeping meticulous
> >records of what i eat), low carb (max 100g / day), and in the first 7
> >days i increased about 5 lbs (subsequently started decreasing). i
> >definately look thinner, especially in the face, activity level is the
> >same... no idea WHY the weight went up....
>
> Probably hydration. It depends on what your previous diet was.

i pretty much just ate whatever i wanted previously, but hydration is /
was not an issue- i easily drink a gallon of water a day now /
previously. i'm also not drinking nearly as much milk- was drinking
about 1/2 gallon a day.

> What Shugart is suggesting is just another version of a
> protein-sparing modified fast (PSMF) diet. So was the Fat Fast Diet
> recommended by "Brock Strasser" aka Bruce Kneller.

understood.
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"ed" <news.RemoveThis@atwistedweb.com> wrote:
>joanne wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 10:14 am, xmp....RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > I'm 6'2, and around 195lbs. I think I put on about 9 lbs of muscle
>> > mass via bodyweight exercises (calisthenics), which is great by me. On
>> > a typical day, I get around 1200 calories... and I'm not starving
>> > myself. I'd have to push to get 1800. My main goal is to add some
>> > mass to my chest. Not going for a body-builder look or anything, just
>> > a bit more mass.
>>
>>
>> At eating only 1200 calories a day, you wouldnt've put on '9lbs of
>> muscle' by doing any kind of exercise as you dont have a 'surplus' of
>> calories. You more likely lost bodyfat which made any muscles you had
>> more defined and noticable.
>> 1200 to 1800 calories is not enough to support mass gains for your
>> height/weight. You would need to be eating at the very least 10x your
>> bodyweight and more likely 15x your body weight.
>
>i don't know... the body's a wacky thing... i'm 6', and started a
>calorie restricted diet based on the velocity diet
>(http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=546491&pageNo=0) at 178lbs,
>~15% body fat, trying to get down to about 10%. based on the
>recommendations for the diet, i'm eating 1300-1600 calories a day
>(about 1/2 what i was previously eating, and i'm keeping meticulous
>records of what i eat), low carb (max 100g / day), and in the first 7
>days i increased about 5 lbs (subsequently started decreasing). i
>definately look thinner, especially in the face, activity level is the
>same... no idea WHY the weight went up....

Probably hydration. It depends on what your previous diet was.

What Shugart is suggesting is just another version of a
protein-sparing modified fast (PSMF) diet. So was the Fat Fast Diet
recommended by "Brock Strasser" aka Bruce Kneller.
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