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Next: Beginner Weight Training: When is a beginner no longer a beginner?
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Since: Jun 14, 2005 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:15 pm
Post subject: Newbie questions Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)
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Hey everyone. I have only recently joined a gym and started exercising.
Unfortunately, I do not yet know any of the theoretical side of exercise and
nutrition, so I thought I might ask my questions here as a start. If you
couldn't be bothered explaining the answer to me, but could point me towards
some information that would, I would be equally grateful.
O.K., I have two main questions.
1. a) I prefer to do as much exercise as I can handle, rather than the bare
minimum. However, I have heard that muscles grow in the time that they are
resting, so you should never exercise the same muscle group two days in a
row, and that doing so can actually decrease your muscle mass. I want to
know if I can do upper weights + cardio (bike, walker, stepper) on Day 1 and
then do lower weights on Day 2. Would the cardio from the previous day make
it a bad idea to do lower weights on the next day?
b) I think that fairly soon I would be capable of doing upper weights +
cardio on Day 1, then lower weights + cardio on Day 2 (and then repeating).
The program I was given actually goes Upper - Cardio - Lower - Cardio (then
repeat, always one type of exercise a day ). As I said I would prefer to do
more if my body is able, but if I found out doing more was not beneficial I
would change my mind. What do you guys think?
2. I know nothing about nutrition. I don't even understand carbohydrates or
protein etc. Would it be better to learn from a library book rather than
websites? If so, could someone please recommend a good book(s) that would
explain to me the functions of the different types of food categories, how
much someone should have daily, and then give me a good idea as to how I
should eat to maximise energy for working out while not taking in
unnecessary fat?
For anyone who bothers to reply, thanks a lot in advance.
-WJ >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:37 am
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Johnny,
I wouldn't be surprised that you are getting fit quick since it
sounds like you are more motivated than most. I would recommend that
you add some free weights to your routine, I feel that they build
muscle better. Just be more careful with free weights and start light.
I wouldn't really say that giving your muscle groups 1 to 2 days rest
should severely cut back on the exercise you can do. You just have to
split your body up more if you want to go to the gym more. A three day
split that I use is chest (the pushing exercises), back (the pulling
exercises), and legs and abs. I feel that splitting the upper body
along pushing and pulling lines makes more sense than the schedule the
personal trainer gave you since triceps are used most in chest
exercises and biceps are used most in back exercises. Do the biggest
muscle group exercises first and work your way down (e.g. on chest days
start with bench or incline and finish with triceps). Just work really
hard on the focused days and you will do well. My personal opinion is
that a hard hour workout is about right for me. With your desire to do
weights and cardio (60min) on the same day this adds up to two hours a
day. I would recommend not being in the gym longer than this each day
for physical and personal  reasons. Please contact me if you have
any questions.
James >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jun 14, 2005 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Thanks heaps for getting back to me.
Well as far as the weights side goes, I would like to be stronger and
bigger. I am only starting to get muscle definition, and the machine
settings I use at the gym are relatively light at the moment. I have gone
from no exercise to going to gym.
19 male, 6'4", 105 kgs (231 pounds)
I'm not sure about my body fat percentage as I'm new to all this. If it's
really important I know I can get it from a machine at my gym. Basically I
think I would have to lost about 7 kilos of fat to have a flat (though not
defined) stomach.
Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using machines - no
free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60 minute cardio workout
whenever time permits. I have read that I should allow my muscles 1-2 days
to recoup after exercising them which severely cuts back on the amount of
exercise I can do. I would much prefer to do the most my body is capable of
(one muscle group + cardio per day). On one day I do chest shoulders and
biceps, on the other day it is legs, back and I think triceps. I got the
program from a personal trainer at my gym. I would ask him all of this but
it costs $80 per session.
I'm finding that I'm getting fit unusually quick. My dad has always told me
this is the case with him too, so perhaps genetics is on my side. However, I
am definitely not as strong as I should be for my size.
Anything else you need just say and I'd be happy to provide.
Thanks again
- WJ >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Oct 29, 2005 Posts: 614
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2005-06-14 WalkingJohnny napisał(a):
> Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using machines - no
> free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60 minute cardio workout
> whenever time permits. I have read that I should allow my muscles 1-2 days
> to recoup after exercising them
Roughly correct.
> which severely cuts back on the amount of
> exercise I can do.
Not really. Or it shouldn't. Do more sets of whatever you do if you
wish. Train harder (shorter rests, higher weights) if you can. Add
more exercises which train the same bodyparts.
It is possible to puke from exertion after doing hard set of almost
whatever.
> I would much prefer to do the most my body is capable of
> (one muscle group + cardio per day).
So do it. Just try to train the same exercise some twice a week. I
mean, you should not split your routine to a point that you train the
same muscle every other month.
> On one day I do chest shoulders and
> biceps, on the other day it is legs, back and I think triceps.
I'd move biceps to back and triceps to chest days.
> I got the
> program from a personal trainer at my gym. I would ask him all of this but
> it costs $80 per session.
Read. It will cost you nothing and you will learn more this way.
Google something. It shouldn't bite you  .
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrzej,
I fully agree (as stated above) with having triceps on chest days and
biceps on back days. It confuses me why there are trainers out there
that recommend otherwise since these are used together. To split them
the other way would seem to lead to overtraining and less intense
workouts of the smaller muscles since they don't get as much time off.
If there is anyone out there that can explain the chest/bicep
back/bicep logic to me I would really like to hear it. This is all
taken from my experience and opinion, I am open to hear reasoning
against it and do not mean this as a knock on anyone.
Thank you,
James >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Oct 29, 2005 Posts: 614
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2005-06-16 jgrabbs RemoveThis @gmail.com napisał(a):
> Andrzej,
> I fully agree (as stated above) with having triceps on chest days and
> biceps on back days. It confuses me why there are trainers out there
> that recommend otherwise since these are used together.
Arms are trained "indirectly" with all pressing and pulling motions.
Having them trained directly on "opposite" days, when they are relatively
fresh, should lead to more intense direct work.
> To split them
> the other way would seem to lead to overtraining
Not necessarily. It could, but just about anything could lead to
overtraining. Well, this kind of split gives more intense arm training,
which many people want anyway. Big guns and all...
> and less intense
> workouts of the smaller muscles since they don't get as much time off.
Maybe. I started doing arms on my legs day and still am able to work
them hard. I train most days, so overall load is quite remarkable, but
I seem to handle it all right. I do not think that moving arms to
"opposite" days is inherently wrong. I wouldn't do it, so I wrote it,
but others can try for themselves.
> If there is anyone out there that can explain the chest/bicep
> back/bicep logic to me I would really like to hear it. This is all
> taken from my experience and opinion, I am open to hear reasoning
> against it and do not mean this as a knock on anyone.
From my experience - when I tried to train curls after pullups and rows
they were a joke, so I skipped them totally. When I do them after squats
they "mean" something. Not much (even supersetted with nosebreakers),
but this is as much as I'm willing to do after heavy leg work  .
Easiest way would be to try for yourself, for a month or two.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 13
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrzej,
I appreciate the reply. I guess you realized that I did a typo when
I wrote "chest/bicep back/bicep logic" since I meant to inquire about
the chest/bicep and back/tricep logic. My training focus is on overall
strength so I work primarily on the big muscle groups and sometimes
don't even do arms directly. I generally do triceps to burnout at the
end of my chest days and feel that my biceps get worked fine during the
other parts of my back workout. I do dumbell rows (I call it the
lawnmower pull) at the end and that works my back and biceps good.
Anyway I like working out this way because I feel I get the most out of
my time at the gym, as I said above I generally limit my workouts to an
hour.
Thank you,
James >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jan 08, 2005 Posts: 2032
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"WalkingJohnny" <blah.RemoveThis@blah.com> wrote in message
news:zkBre.16700$F7.8826@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Thanks heaps for getting back to me.
> Well as far as the weights side goes, I would like to be stronger and
> bigger. I am only starting to get muscle definition, and the machine
> settings I use at the gym are relatively light at the moment. I have
> gone from no exercise to going to gym.
>
> 19 male, 6'4", 105 kgs (231 pounds)
> I'm not sure about my body fat percentage as I'm new to all this. If
> it's really important I know I can get it from a machine at my gym.
> Basically I think I would have to lost about 7 kilos of fat to have a
> flat (though not defined) stomach.
> Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using machines -
> no free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60 minute cardio
> workout whenever time permits. I have read that I should allow my
> muscles 1-2 days to recoup after exercising them which severely cuts
> back on the amount of exercise I can do. I would much prefer to do the
> most my body is capable of (one muscle group + cardio per day). On one
> day I do chest shoulders and biceps, on the other day it is legs, back
> and I think triceps. I got the program from a personal trainer at my
> gym. I would ask him all of this but it costs $80 per session.
> I'm finding that I'm getting fit unusually quick. My dad has always
> told me this is the case with him too, so perhaps genetics is on my
> side. However, I am definitely not as strong as I should be for my
> size.
> Anything else you need just say and I'd be happy to provide.
> Thanks again
> - WJ
I think you're smart to start easily. When you're ready, I recommend
you get Pavel's "Power To The People!" http://www.kbnj.com - it's a
great introduction to weight training and will help you figure things
out for yourself. There is also a discussion forum on the publisher's
web site that can be very helpful.
Congrats on going to the gym and on already losing some weight, and keep
up the good work.
-S-
http://www.kbnj.com >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jan 08, 2005 Posts: 2032
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steve Freides" <steve.RemoveThis@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:3ho1meFi1bqrU1@individual.net...
> "WalkingJohnny" <blah.RemoveThis@blah.com> wrote in message
> news:zkBre.16700$F7.8826@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Thanks heaps for getting back to me.
>> Well as far as the weights side goes, I would like to be stronger and
>> bigger. I am only starting to get muscle definition, and the machine
>> settings I use at the gym are relatively light at the moment. I have
>> gone from no exercise to going to gym.
>>
>> 19 male, 6'4", 105 kgs (231 pounds)
>> I'm not sure about my body fat percentage as I'm new to all this. If
>> it's really important I know I can get it from a machine at my gym.
>> Basically I think I would have to lost about 7 kilos of fat to have a
>> flat (though not defined) stomach.
>> Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using
>> machines - no free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60
>> minute cardio workout whenever time permits. I have read that I
>> should allow my muscles 1-2 days to recoup after exercising them
>> which severely cuts back on the amount of exercise I can do. I would
>> much prefer to do the most my body is capable of (one muscle group +
>> cardio per day). On one day I do chest shoulders and biceps, on the
>> other day it is legs, back and I think triceps. I got the program
>> from a personal trainer at my gym. I would ask him all of this but it
>> costs $80 per session.
>> I'm finding that I'm getting fit unusually quick. My dad has always
>> told me this is the case with him too, so perhaps genetics is on my
>> side. However, I am definitely not as strong as I should be for my
>> size.
>> Anything else you need just say and I'd be happy to provide.
>> Thanks again
>> - WJ
>
> I think you're smart to start easily. When you're ready, I recommend
> you get Pavel's "Power To The People!" http://www.kbnj.com - it's a
> great introduction to weight training and will help you figure things
> out for yourself. There is also a discussion forum on the publisher's
> web site that can be very helpful.
>
> Congrats on going to the gym and on already losing some weight, and
> keep up the good work.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
Bad link - the book is at http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm, or you can find
it in most major bookstores and also online at http://www.amazon.com and
elsewhere.
-S-
http://www.kbnj.com >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Oct 29, 2005 Posts: 614
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2005-06-20 jgrabbs.RemoveThis@gmail.com napisał(a):
> Andrzej,
> I appreciate the reply. I guess you realized that I did a typo when
> I wrote "chest/bicep back/bicep logic" since I meant to inquire about
> the chest/bicep and back/tricep logic. My training focus is on overall
> strength so I work primarily on the big muscle groups and sometimes
> don't even do arms directly. I generally do triceps to burnout at the
> end of my chest days and feel that my biceps get worked fine during the
> other parts of my back workout.
Similar to what I did. I didn't train arms directly for some time and
they grew, but I found that some direct work actually helps with those
big movements we all want to move forward.
I guess it was DZ who not so long ago risked statement, that curls and
extensions of arms do nothing for real life strength. Well, in my case
they do something.
Newbies in general spend way too much time training arms, so we tend
here to "preach" a little and overcompensate with our advices, but once
you do basics all right there is a time to fine tune your routine for
your personal needs. Or even change it radically for a while and see
what will happen.
> I do dumbell rows (I call it the
> lawnmower pull) at the end and that works my back and biceps good.
> Anyway I like working out this way because I feel I get the most out of
> my time at the gym,
It looks like you could actually try to move arms to "opposite" days. I
guess you would progress nicely at least for a while.
> as I said above I generally limit my workouts to an hour.
It is enough, but if you feel like doing more or less, just do not be
afraid to try it.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jan 17, 2005 Posts: 1208
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie questions [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrzej Rosa <bakters DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>Dnia 2005-06-20 jgrabbs DeleteThis @gmail.com napisał(a):
>> Andrzej,
>> I appreciate the reply. I guess you realized that I did a typo when
>> I wrote "chest/bicep back/bicep logic" since I meant to inquire about
>> the chest/bicep and back/tricep logic. My training focus is on overall
>> strength so I work primarily on the big muscle groups and sometimes
>> don't even do arms directly. I generally do triceps to burnout at the
>> end of my chest days and feel that my biceps get worked fine during the
>> other parts of my back workout.
>
>Similar to what I did. I didn't train arms directly for some time and
>they grew, but I found that some direct work actually helps with those
>big movements we all want to move forward.
>
>I guess it was DZ who not so long ago risked statement, that curls and
>extensions of arms do nothing for real life strength.
Dmitri refuses to do direct arm work with anything except official
Dragon Door kettlebells.
--
JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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Since: Jun 21, 2005 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:32 pm
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Since: Jun 21, 2005 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:34 pm
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Since: Oct 29, 2005 Posts: 614
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:14 pm
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Dnia 2005-06-21 DZ napisał(a):
> Andrzej Rosa <bakters.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Similar to what I did. I didn't train arms directly for some time and
>> they grew, but I found that some direct work actually helps with those
>> big movements we all want to move forward.
>>
>> I guess it was DZ who not so long ago risked statement, that curls and
>> extensions of arms do nothing for real life strength. Well, in my case
>> they do something.
>
> I was just BS-ing.
You got me  .
On the other hand, after not doing any curls for couple of months I can
strict curl what I was power curling (aka cheat curl) before. I mean, I
had to jerk the weight from slightly below my knees, and now I simply
curl it with stationary upper body and elbows.
Sure, I still have those beginner gains after some years of lay off, but
I was impressed anyway  .
> I don't do direct arms work, but I don't really
> doubt it may help in increasing the size, at least. My observation is
> that people who do *only* curls, triceps pushdowns etc. end up looking
> like this - http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/hhh3/henry1.jpg
> Nothing wrong with that of course, if that's what you're after
> (decorative - ornamental kind of look).
If I was after looks only, then I'd still mostly press and pull.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Newbie questions |
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