Newbie fitness/protein shake question

On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Stephan Carydakis wrote:

> "The Other Mike" <Noone RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:k5o1n2pjmauelcdi56md1gv8146e746j2l@4ax.com...
>
>> So, my question is if protein shakes are a good idea. I've read about
>> the increase in protein helping muscle growth but am concerned it'll
>> stunt my efforts to get rid of my gut. In my situation, any advice?
>> If the shakes are a good idea, how often?

Shakes will help build muscle, but i think they will also slow down fat
loss. It's not as if your body allocates all the energy from a protein
shake straight into muscle growth; it goes into the same general pool
whose size determines whether you lose or gain fat.

My inexpert advice would be to focus on the fat loss; do plenty of
exercise, including some weights, eat good food (what you said in the bit
i snipped sounds great - wholemeal bread, lots of greens, lean meat, no
fizzy pop, all good stuff), aim for a good few hundred calories below
maintenance every day, and you'll shift the fat. Since your muscles are
completely untrained, you should manage to gain some muscle during this
time as well, even though you're running at a net energy deficit. If you
can spend some of your daily calorie budget on a shake after a workout,
great, but if that means not being able to have a satisfying meal later in
the day, don't bother.

> There are generally 3 types of whey protein sold. Concentrate (about 80%
> protein) , Isolate (about 90% protein) and Hydrolysed (claimed '100%').
> I haven't tried hydrolysed but it is said to be very bitter in taste
> (anyone used it?).

No, but i do have a tub of essential amino acid powder, which is broadly
the same thing - free amino acids, rather than proteins - and that does
indeed taste quite bitter. I mix it up into a during-workout drink along
with sugar, maltodextrin and lemon juice, and it tastes fine; i actually
quite like the very slight edge of bitterness, rather like the bitter
citrus drinks you get in mediterranean countries (chinotto, kinnie, stuff
like that).

Speaking of which, if you're trying to avoid soda, fizzy mineral water
with a squeeze of lemon juice is a fantastic alternative. Much more
refreshing, and much healthier.

tom

--
find porn apricot

Kristofer Hogg <entropic3.14decay.DeleteThis@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>"JMW" <jmwilliams.DeleteThis@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>> "Stephan Carydakis" <steph777.DeleteThis@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>Whey protein seems to be popular because it contains a lot of the amino
>>>acids required by the body. There are generally 3 types of whey protein
>>>sold. Concentrate (about 80% protein) , Isolate (about 90% protein) and
>>>Hydrolysed (claimed '100%'). I haven't tried hydrolysed but it is said to
>>>be
>>>very bitter in taste (anyone used it?). It apparently has the advantage of
>>>being absorbed into the body a lot quicker - I don't know to what extent.
>>>Watch out for protein supplements that have fats and carbs added.
>>
>
>And of course, the oh-so erudite sounding jmw is, of course, not.
>
>> The absorption is fast enough that the type isn't really very
>> important.
>
>Very wrong. See below.

Yes, let's see below. Oh, yes, Mr. Hogg glibly pulls the following
double-talk out of his hindquarters with no basis other than his
pompous and narcissitic claims of an advanced education:

>Free amino acids are in fact *poorly absorbed* by the gut, which has evolved
>to optimally transport somewhere in the vicinity of *tetrapeptides*, altho
>anything from di- to hexa- is better than single aas.
>There is not likely any natural law that dictates this, other than evolution
>and conservation:
>Digestion/transit times being what they are, probably complete hydrolysis to
>free aa's is to time consuming/energy-intensive (from several points of
>view), so the polypeptide absorption strategy evolved.
>Other animals, like snakes, might digest to completely free aas, but I don't
>know this for sure.
>Also, polypeptide vs free aa's lowers the osmotic "pressures" in the body,
>allowing fluid to more easily reside in their various "compartments"
>(intracellular, interstitial, vascular, gut, etc).
>
>The difference in absorption is marked: Forgot the number, but 30% comes
>to mind: free aas are absorbed 30% less than poly's AND, iirc, the number
>may vary w/ the free amino acid! A very bad thing if that particular aa is
>already a limiting aa.
>Altho this is relatively old nutritional info by now, when it first started
>coming to light, it was big news, quite unexpected. Everyone just *assumed*
>that it was free aas that were transported.
>Like jmw still does.
>
>From an economical pov, note how the opposite holds true in manufacture:
>To take whole proteins and hydrolyze them down to, say, tetra to
>hexapeptides is a far more difficult task than just letting a vat sit there
>X hours for free aa's.
>Also, the quality of hydrolyzed protein can be quite iffy.
>For example, if collagen, like what's in jello, the quality is *zero*, as
>certain essential aa's are absent altogether. Need to know the amino acid
>profile, and compare to the egg. Or at least it's source, and hope they
>didn't lose anything in the hydrolysis process.
>
>Or so I believe.

Do you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, too?

First, we're talking about whey protein, not "free amino acids." So
what has been shown about the breakdown of whey protein and absorption
through the gut of the constituent amino acids? Well, let's review
what I previously posted here, based on a fairly recent study:

"In a 2004 article by Kevin Tipton and his gang at UT-MB (since nearly
all your posts regard protein, I assume you are familiar with that
group), they measured arterial, venous, and intracellular levels of
leucine and phenylalanine after ingestion of whey and casein. You may
wish to note that leucine is particularly important, since it is very
probably the primary amino acid responsible for mTOR signaling of
muscle protein synthesis.

"The arterial levels for both amino acids began to climb steeply
almost immediately after ingestion. With both whey and casein, levels
of both amino acids peaked out less than 60 minutes after ingestion.
As expected, levels from casein didn't peak as high as whey, but they
lasted longer; whey numbers for leucine dropped halfway back to
baseline after about two hours, while casein numbers stayed pretty
level over that time. The numbers for phenylalanine were not a
pronounced, but the peaks were still at about 30-60 minutes.

"The venous levels for both amino acids were similar. A steep climb
immediately after ingestion with peak levels about an hour. Whey
peaked higher but dropped faster.

"Even the intracellular levels of leucine from muscle biopsies showed
a quicker turnaround than the numbers you posted. From whey,
intracellular levels of leucine in the thigh muscles had jumped about
50% within an hour.

"Given those facts, it seems that free form amino acids are pretty
much a waste of money."

Source: Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after
resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Regardless of your double-talk about free amino acids, as you can see,
I think they are a waste, anyway. And the absorption through the gut
of amino acids from whey is, as I previously said, quite fast.

If you want the abstract, look it up on PubMed. It won't help you,
though. That data comes from within the article. And for that,
you'll need to get on the bus and go to a university library.