Newbie fitness/protein shake question

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> "JMW" <jmwilliams.RemoveThis@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
> news:t6t1n2hqpkfdi5ogrpbgu7ntum0i63f81s@4ax.com...
> > The Other Mike <Noone.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post this. I'm a 37 year old
> >>male, 5' 10" and about 200lbs...I'm a life long couch potato with
> >>pretty much no muscle. Been using free weights and the treadmill for
> >>the past 2 weeks...alternating days with one day a week totally off.
> >>I've changed my diet as well...no more soda (all water), wheat bread
> >>instead of white, less fatty foods...etc. but I admittedly don't count
> >>calories and am probably not getting enough protein in a day. I've
> >>lost about 9 lbs in the past 2 weeks so I'm happy so far. My goal is
> >>two fold...I'd like to gain some muscle mass (not alot...I guess a
> >>"normal" amount) and lose the gut. So, my question is if protein
> >>shakes are a good idea. I've read about the increase in protein
> >>helping muscle growth but am concerned it'll stunt my efforts to get
> >>rid of my gut. In my situation, any advice? If the shakes are a good
> >>idea, how often? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
> > glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
> > are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
> > beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
> > may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are dumped
> > on top of an already eucaloric diet.
> >
>
> Show some cites, hack, I mean, jack.

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise
on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006
Nov;38(11):1918-25.

Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A. The effect of whey isolate
and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma
glutamine. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16:494-508

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Aarsland AA, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion
before and after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug 8;
[Epub ahead of print]

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after
resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79. Review.

Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Independent and
combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.

Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR. Acute response of
net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and
amino acid ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003
Jan;284(1):E76-89.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini
BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters
anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol
Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.

> Of course, you could offer up yer whey/gluc/*creatine* st-st-st-study, but
> if the OP has one milligram more brainmatter than you do, he'll ask the very
> obvious Q:
> WTF does whey/gluc/**creatine** have to do w/ whey??????????????

If you had the mental capacity to understand all the other studies
cited above, you might experience a revelation. Lacking that, I guess
you'll just have to flounder in your own ignorance.

At least you have a lot of practice in that regard.

> *Not saying this timing issue isn't true*, just that it doesn't make oodles
> of a priori sense

It makes perfect /a priori/ sense if you understand the physiology of
muscle protein synthesis. It simply conflicts with your chatty
phonetic blatherings. Go play with your HollowBar.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

The Other Mike <Noone RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:

>Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post this. I'm a 37 year old
>male, 5' 10" and about 200lbs...I'm a life long couch potato with
>pretty much no muscle. Been using free weights and the treadmill for
>the past 2 weeks...alternating days with one day a week totally off.
>I've changed my diet as well...no more soda (all water), wheat bread
>instead of white, less fatty foods...etc. but I admittedly don't count
>calories and am probably not getting enough protein in a day. I've
>lost about 9 lbs in the past 2 weeks so I'm happy so far. My goal is
>two fold...I'd like to gain some muscle mass (not alot...I guess a
>"normal" amount) and lose the gut. So, my question is if protein
>shakes are a good idea. I've read about the increase in protein
>helping muscle growth but am concerned it'll stunt my efforts to get
>rid of my gut. In my situation, any advice? If the shakes are a good
>idea, how often? Thanks in advance.

Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are dumped
on top of an already eucaloric diet.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

"JMW" <jmwilliams_56 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165037119.537329.217890@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> "JMW" <jmwilliams RemoveThis @enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
> news:t6t1n2hqpkfdi5ogrpbgu7ntum0i63f81s@4ax.com...
> > The Other Mike <Noone RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post this. I'm a 37 year old
> >>male, 5' 10" and about 200lbs...I'm a life long couch potato with
> >>pretty much no muscle. Been using free weights and the treadmill for
> >>the past 2 weeks...alternating days with one day a week totally off.
> >>I've changed my diet as well...no more soda (all water), wheat bread
> >>instead of white, less fatty foods...etc. but I admittedly don't count
> >>calories and am probably not getting enough protein in a day. I've
> >>lost about 9 lbs in the past 2 weeks so I'm happy so far. My goal is
> >>two fold...I'd like to gain some muscle mass (not alot...I guess a
> >>"normal" amount) and lose the gut. So, my question is if protein
> >>shakes are a good idea. I've read about the increase in protein
> >>helping muscle growth but am concerned it'll stunt my efforts to get
> >>rid of my gut. In my situation, any advice? If the shakes are a good
> >>idea, how often? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
> > glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
> > are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
> > beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
> > may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are dumped
> > on top of an already eucaloric diet.
> >
>
> Show some cites, hack, I mean, jack.

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise
on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006
Nov;38(11):1918-25.

Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A. The effect of whey isolate
and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma
glutamine. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16:494-508

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Aarsland AA, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion
before and after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug 8;
[Epub ahead of print]

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after
resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79. Review.

Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Independent and
combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.

Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR. Acute response of
net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and
amino acid ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003
Jan;284(1):E76-89.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini
BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters
anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol
Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.

> Of course, you could offer up yer whey/gluc/*creatine* st-st-st-study, but
> if the OP has one milligram more brainmatter than you do, he'll ask the
> very
> obvious Q:
> WTF does whey/gluc/**creatine** have to do w/ whey??????????????

If you had the mental capacity to understand all the other studies
cited above, you might experience a revelation. Lacking that, I guess
you'll just have to flounder in your own ignorance.

At least you have a lot of practice in that regard.

> *Not saying this timing issue isn't true*, just that it doesn't make
> oodles
> of a priori sense

It makes perfect /a priori/ sense if you understand the physiology of
muscle protein synthesis. It simply conflicts with your chatty
phonetic blatherings. Go play with your HollowBar.

====================

I notice your whey/gluc/*creatine* site is not on that list.....

OK, let's assume that the above cites support your thesis.

How does this concept make a priori sense?
Do you have links to the arts/abstracts?

It's HoloBarre. Would you like to be a beta-tester?
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

Kristofer Hogg <entropic3.14decay.RemoveThis@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>
>I notice your whey/gluc/*creatine* site is not on that list.....

It was the first one on the list.

>OK, let's assume that the above cites support your thesis.

They do.

>How does this concept make a priori sense?

Insulin ... leucine ... mammalian target of rapamycin. Magic words.
Learn their meaning and get a clue.

>Do you have links to the arts/abstracts?

The abstracts can be found on PubMed. The articles might be found at
your local university library. Since you live in one of the largest
cities in the world, I assume you can access to them somewhere. If
they're not in walking distance, you may want to call a taxi.

>It's HoloBarre. Would you like to be a beta-tester?

There's a HollowBar in my gym. I use it for weighted chin-ups. Its
useful purposes are otherwise pretty limited.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

Hmmmmm......

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise
on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006
Nov;38(11):1918-25.

This study was funded by AST Sports Science, a supplement company.

AND, it WAS your whey/glucose/***creatine*** study, that you embarrassed
yourself with earlier.

AND, it is a single-, not double-blind study.

And.... and.... and..... I haven't even READ IT yet.
Course, then, neither, likely, have you.
Course, not that that would make much of a difference.

Ahm thinkin, mebbe you cain't even score in a women's detention center, w/
$$, chocolate, and ciggies....
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"JMW" <jmwilliams_56 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165037119.537329.217890@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> "JMW" <jmwilliams DeleteThis @enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
> news:t6t1n2hqpkfdi5ogrpbgu7ntum0i63f81s@4ax.com...
> > The Other Mike <Noone DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post this. I'm a 37 year old
> >>male, 5' 10" and about 200lbs...I'm a life long couch potato with
> >>pretty much no muscle. Been using free weights and the treadmill for
> >>the past 2 weeks...alternating days with one day a week totally off.
> >>I've changed my diet as well...no more soda (all water), wheat bread
> >>instead of white, less fatty foods...etc. but I admittedly don't count
> >>calories and am probably not getting enough protein in a day. I've
> >>lost about 9 lbs in the past 2 weeks so I'm happy so far. My goal is
> >>two fold...I'd like to gain some muscle mass (not alot...I guess a
> >>"normal" amount) and lose the gut. So, my question is if protein
> >>shakes are a good idea. I've read about the increase in protein
> >>helping muscle growth but am concerned it'll stunt my efforts to get
> >>rid of my gut. In my situation, any advice? If the shakes are a good
> >>idea, how often? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
> > glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
> > are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
> > beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
> > may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are dumped
> > on top of an already eucaloric diet.
> >
>
> Show some cites, hack, I mean, jack.

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise
on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006
Nov;38(11):1918-25.

Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A. The effect of whey isolate
and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma
glutamine. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16:494-508

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Aarsland AA, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion
before and after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug 8;
[Epub ahead of print]

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after
resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79. Review.

Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Independent and
combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.

Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR. Acute response of
net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and
amino acid ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003
Jan;284(1):E76-89.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini
BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters
anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol
Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.

> Of course, you could offer up yer whey/gluc/*creatine* st-st-st-study, but
> if the OP has one milligram more brainmatter than you do, he'll ask the
> very
> obvious Q:
> WTF does whey/gluc/**creatine** have to do w/ whey??????????????

If you had the mental capacity to understand all the other studies
cited above, you might experience a revelation. Lacking that, I guess
you'll just have to flounder in your own ignorance.

At least you have a lot of practice in that regard.

> *Not saying this timing issue isn't true*, just that it doesn't make
> oodles
> of a priori sense

It makes perfect /a priori/ sense if you understand the physiology of
muscle protein synthesis. It simply conflicts with your chatty
phonetic blatherings. Go play with your HollowBar.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

>
>>How does this concept make a priori sense?
>
> Insulin ... leucine ... mammalian target of rapamycin. Magic words.
> Learn their meaning and get a clue.

This is not much of an explanation--it's the bandying about of words.
If you don't want to explain it to me, then how bout to the OP, or others?
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs



>
>>Do you have links to the arts/abstracts?
>
> The abstracts can be found on PubMed. The articles might be found at
> your local university library. Since you live in one of the largest
> cities in the world, I assume you can access to them somewhere. If
> they're not in walking distance, you may want to call a taxi.
>
>>It's HoloBarre. Would you like to be a beta-tester?
>
> There's a HollowBar in my gym. I use it for weighted chin-ups. Its
> useful purposes are otherwise pretty limited.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

A jmw cite:
]
Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after
resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Lessee if I got this right:
The abstract below shows that amino acids are absorbed, presumably by
muscle, after you exercise, from food eaten after you exercise.
wow.....
So lessee, ahm just guesssin here, but I guess that means that if you
exercise, lessee, mebbe you should EAT??? !!!!

And, if I understand the protocol correctly (femoral blood analysis), one
can't even be really sure WHAT accounted for the difference in aa balance.
Amino acids could have been used elsewhere, as well. You'd have to
radio-label everything, and assay *multiple* tissues to say what went where,
and when.

Wonder who funded this study?
================
Purpose: Determination of the anabolic response to exercise and nutrition is
important for individuals who may benefit from increased muscle mass. Intake
of free amino acids after resistance exercise stimulates net muscle protein
synthesis. The response of muscle protein balance to intact protein
ingestion after exercise has not been studied. This study was designed to
examine the acute response of muscle protein balance to ingestion of two
different intact proteins after resistance exercise.
Methods: Healthy volunteers were randomly assigned to one of three groups.
Each group consumed one of three drinks: placebo (PL; N = 7), 20 g of casein
(CS; N = 7), or whey proteins (WH; N = 9). Volunteers consumed the drink 1 h
after the conclusion of a leg extension exercise bout. Leucine and
phenylalanine concentrations were measured in femoral arteriovenous samples
to determine balance across the leg.

Results: Arterial amino acid concentrations were elevated by protein
ingestion, but the pattern of appearance was different for CS and WH. Net
amino acid balance switched from negative to positive after ingestion of
both proteins. Peak leucine net balance over time was greater for WH (347
+/- 50 nmol[middle dot]min-1[middle dot]100 mL-1 leg) than CS (133 +/- 45
nmol[middle dot]min-1[middle dot]100 mL-1 leg), but peak phenylalanine
balance was similar for CS and WH. Ingestion of both CS and WH stimulated a
significantly larger net phenylalanine uptake after resistance exercise,
compared with the PL (PL -5 +/- 15 mg, CS 84 +/- 10 mg, WH 62 +/- 18 mg).
Amino acid uptake relative to amount ingested was similar for both CS and WH
(~10-15%).

Conclusions: Acute ingestion of both WH and CS after exercise resulted in
similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle
protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.

PubMed don't seem to have any of these journals. I got the Med Sci Sports
Ex from the ms-se.com website.

Still waiting for *explanations*, jmw.

--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"JMW" <jmwilliams_56 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165037119.537329.217890@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> "JMW" <jmwilliams RemoveThis @enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
> news:t6t1n2hqpkfdi5ogrpbgu7ntum0i63f81s@4ax.com...
> > The Other Mike <Noone RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Sorry if this is the wrong forum to post this. I'm a 37 year old
> >>male, 5' 10" and about 200lbs...I'm a life long couch potato with
> >>pretty much no muscle. Been using free weights and the treadmill for
> >>the past 2 weeks...alternating days with one day a week totally off.
> >>I've changed my diet as well...no more soda (all water), wheat bread
> >>instead of white, less fatty foods...etc. but I admittedly don't count
> >>calories and am probably not getting enough protein in a day. I've
> >>lost about 9 lbs in the past 2 weeks so I'm happy so far. My goal is
> >>two fold...I'd like to gain some muscle mass (not alot...I guess a
> >>"normal" amount) and lose the gut. So, my question is if protein
> >>shakes are a good idea. I've read about the increase in protein
> >>helping muscle growth but am concerned it'll stunt my efforts to get
> >>rid of my gut. In my situation, any advice? If the shakes are a good
> >>idea, how often? Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
> > glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
> > are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
> > beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
> > may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are dumped
> > on top of an already eucaloric diet.
> >
>
> Show some cites, hack, I mean, jack.

Cribb PJ, Hayes A. Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise
on skeletal muscle hypertrophy. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006
Nov;38(11):1918-25.

Cribb PJ, Williams AD, Carey MF, Hayes A. The effect of whey isolate
and resistance training on strength, body composition, and plasma
glutamine. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2006 Oct;16:494-508

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Aarsland AA, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis by whey protein ingestion
before and after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug 8;
[Epub ahead of print]

Tipton KD, Elliott TA, Cree MG, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.
Ingestion of casein and whey proteins result in muscle anabolism after
resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Dec;36(12):2073-81.

Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. J Sports Sci. 2004 Jan;22(1):65-79. Review.

Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Independent and
combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.

Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR. Acute response of
net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and
amino acid ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003
Jan;284(1):E76-89.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini
BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters
anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol
Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206.

> Of course, you could offer up yer whey/gluc/*creatine* st-st-st-study, but
> if the OP has one milligram more brainmatter than you do, he'll ask the
> very
> obvious Q:
> WTF does whey/gluc/**creatine** have to do w/ whey??????????????

If you had the mental capacity to understand all the other studies
cited above, you might experience a revelation. Lacking that, I guess
you'll just have to flounder in your own ignorance.

At least you have a lot of practice in that regard.

> *Not saying this timing issue isn't true*, just that it doesn't make
> oodles
> of a priori sense

It makes perfect /a priori/ sense if you understand the physiology of
muscle protein synthesis. It simply conflicts with your chatty
phonetic blatherings. Go play with your HollowBar.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

Shute wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:43:42 -0500, JMW
> <jmwilliams.DeleteThis@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>> Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
>> glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
>> are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
>> beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
>> may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are
>> dumped on top of an already eucaloric diet.
>
> John do you take the whey only on training day or everyday?

I take it everyday for breakfast.

> Do you take any other protein supplements on the other days?

You only need supplements to...supplement your diet !!!

> If so what
> kind? Also wondering how many scoops for a normal size man.

How big are the scoops? Define "normal size"!

>
> Right now I am trying to burn fat off so I want to conserve calories.

Er, you're not wanting to conserve calories, you're wanting to lose them.

> But I read somewhere the protein supplements can help minimize muscle
> loss during that period.

Not protein supplements, but protein intake.

> So I don't want to cut it out all together.
> Maybe just one scoop after the workout.

My advise based on personal experience [sorry PV, no cites just a good
muscular physique] is to shoot for the classis 1g of protein per pound of
body weight per day with approx. 30-50g of this coming post workout.


--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

<entropic3.14decay.RemoveThis@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>
>PubMed don't seem to have any of these journals.

You mean "abstracts"? If so, then you're wrong.

>I got the Med Sci Sports
>Ex from the ms-se.com website.

All you got was the abstract. Obtaining and reading the articles
requires work.

>Still waiting for *explanations*, jmw.

Learning muscle physiology also requires work. I don't intend to
teach you.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

<entropic3.14decay RemoveThis @optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>>
>>>How does this concept make a priori sense?
>>
>> Insulin ... leucine ... mammalian target of rapamycin. Magic words.
>> Learn their meaning and get a clue.
>
>This is not much of an explanation--it's the bandying about of words.
>If you don't want to explain it to me, then how bout to the OP, or others?

When others ask, I'll explain to them. I'm not going to teach someone
who pretends that he already knows everything.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

Shute <Shute.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:43:42 -0500, JMW
><jmwilliams.RemoveThis@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>
>>Quickly absorbed protein (whey) and simple sugars (preferably high in
>>glucose) immediately before, during, and immediately after training
>>are beneficial. The rest of the time, they really aren't any more
>>beneficial than any other dietary protein and carbohydrates, and they
>>may just constitute unnecessary additional calories if they are dumped
>>on top of an already eucaloric diet.
>
>John do you take the whey only on training day or everyday? Do you
>take any other protein supplements on the other days? If so what
>kind? Also wondering how many scoops for a normal size man.
>
>Right now I am trying to burn fat off so I want to conserve calories.
>But I read somewhere the protein supplements can help minimize muscle
>loss during that period. So I don't want to cut it out all together.
>Maybe just one scoop after the workout.

I use two scoops and consume it *during* training. The additional
calories are pretty modest. The rest of the time, my protein
consumption comes from common foods, which includes a fairly
substantial amount of low-fat cottage cheese (casein).
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question 

"JMW" <jmwilliams DeleteThis @enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:9903n2h1tgig38tvcovnulfrhpc78kijed@4ax.com...
> <entropic3.14decay DeleteThis @optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>How does this concept make a priori sense?
>>>
>>> Insulin ... leucine ... mammalian target of rapamycin. Magic words.
>>> Learn their meaning and get a clue.
>>
>>This is not much of an explanation--it's the bandying about of words.
>>If you don't want to explain it to me, then how bout to the OP, or others?
>
> When others ask, I'll explain to them. I'm not going to teach someone
> who pretends that he already knows everything.

Quite the contrary--which is why I ask questions.
Didn't say nutrient timing was bullshit--I said it didn't make a priori
sense, posted my reasoning, and waited for yours.
Looks like I'll be waiting for a long time, dudnit?

And just what part of "supplement company funding supplement research" don't
you understand?
What part of whey/gluc/creatine being largely irrelevant to whey/gluc timing
don't you understand?
I can't believe you cited that article *again*!!

Another bullshitter stalking off with his toys.... Except in your case,
it's *imaginary toys*.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs



>
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie fitness/protein shake question