Muscle soreness, like, dislike?

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, nmp wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Sep 2007, wrote:
>
> [..]
>
>>> Seat height can also cause knee pain if set up incorrectly. Too low
>>> and you may have pain on the front of the knee, too high and it will
>>> hurt in back. Having the wrong cleat angle on clipless pedals can also
>>> be a factor in knee pain.
>>
>> Yebbut none of the geometry factors have changed.
>
> Using different (thicker/thinner) shoes perhaps? Even just 5mm can make a
> difference.

Same shoes. But i seem to have been wrong about the geometry - see below.

>> I think it's a combination of putting on weight and getting out of
>> shape. Although bad gear use is probably also a significant factor: due
>> to a badly-adjusted shifter i haven't got round to fixing, my bottom
>> two gears are inaccessible, and whilst this doesn't matter on flats, on
>> climbs, especially if i have a heavy pack, it means i'm pushing too
>> hard.
>
> Then fix the shifter (or the derailleur as the case may be).

Yes, it's the derailleur, sorry.

> It really can't be difficult.

No, not terribly. I just keep putting it off. Part of the problem, though,
is that the way the derailer works is different when the bike's upside
down and the wheels are spinning free to how it is when it's under real
load, which makes finding the right setting a really frustrating process.
It just takes time, though; this weekend is a gaping void in my social
calendar, maybe i'll do it then.

>> There's also a psychology thing here, in that i'd rather push really
>> hard (maintaining normal cadence) on a not-too-steep climb than shift
>> down and slow down, due to macho bullshit.
>
>
>
> Maintaining normal cadence[*] is the reason for shifting to a lower gear.

I understand that. You can also keep up a normal cadence, stay in the same
gear, and push harder. It's a bad idea, but it's what i sometimes end up
doing.

> But yes, you will go slower. There is no shame in that.

No, indeed. There are sometimes practical matters, though - there's one
road with fairly heavy bus traffic, and if you can keep going fast up the
hill, you can stay in phase with it, and avoid being overtaken. The road
is busy, not as wide as it should be, and has a lot of bus stops, so if
you do get overtaken, it's not fun, plus the bus will invariably then cut
you up to pull in to its next stop. The rest of the time, i'm all in
favour of slower.

> [*] Probably slightly faster than you are used to doing right now.

Exactly what everyone always says! If we always took that advice, we'd end
up pedalling at infinite speed!

>> Possibly the geometry has always been suboptimal, but it's only now
>> that it's starting to make itself felt. I should look into this. I
>> don't have a local bike shop i really trust enough to sort it out
>> better than i could myself, though.
>
> There isn't a shop in the world that could do it better than you could if
> you just knew what you were looking for. Because only you can ultimately
> decide if "it feels right".
>
> For seat height (everything else really just follows) you could try
> this: Have someone stabilise you (or hold yourself up against a wall or
> something) while sitting upright on your bike. Place your feet on the
> pedals as if you were riding, that is, try to place the joint at the
> base of your big toe (don't know its name in English, sorry)

We call that the ball of the foot.

> squarely on the pedal for best "style" and leverage. Don't stretch out
> your feet. Pedal backwards, hold your hips still, your pelvis and spine
> should not move at all. Now with either pedal in the lowest position,
> your legs should never be stretched out completely, and just a tiny bit
> of a bend in your knees should be present at all times.

Slightly different to how i've done it in the past, which is to go for a
fully extended but flat-footed leg at the extreme of extension. It
probably comes to much the same thing.

Now, since we got talking about this, i checked my saddle height to make
sure, and it was a good inch or so lower than it should be. I'm not sure
why this is so; i don't think i've got taller, sadly, so i think it must
have just slid down, or else i set it wrong at some point, possibly while
fitting a mudguard. Anyway, it's now higher, and i might try to move it up
further. It already feels more comfortable, although i still get some
joint pain when going fast uphill.

The real problem with geometry, for me, is with the forward-backward
position of the saddle. I have no idea what that should be, and basically
always leave it at the default position.

tom

--
so if you hear a chaffinch out on the pull attempting a severely off-key
version of "Sabotage" by the Beastie Boys then you're not actually
going mad.
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