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Since: Apr 29, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:38 am
Post subject: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? Archived from groups: soc>support>fat-acceptance, others (more info?)
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http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/Advice/WhatIfNoOneWereFat.aspx
What if no one were fat?
Imagine a lean and healthy America: The savings on medical, fuel, food and
other costs would be enough to give every U.S. household more than $4,000.
By Shirley Skeel
Editor's note: This is part of an occasional series on financial what-ifs.
In the United States today, 66% of adults are overweight. Almost 33% of
adults are obese, and 4.7% are morbidly obese, or more than 100 pounds
overweight. But . . .
What if nobody in America were fat?
We'd save billions of dollars in gas. Airlines would double their profits.
A dearth of diabetes and other diseases would save billions of dollars more
-- and put thousands of doctors on the street. McDonald's would sell not
Big Macs but little steamed chicken snacks -- or watch its profits melt
away. Productivity would rise, potentially creating tens of thousands more
jobs or higher wages all around.
Add up the savings up on health, food, clothing and efficiencies, and you
could buy a professional home gym for every U.S. household -- or hand each
$4,270 in cash.
$487 billion in gas, sweat and stretch pants
Yes, it sounds a little wild, but the implications of a leaner, meaner
country add up to a weighty $487 billion. That's almost 3.5% of gross
domestic product, no small sum.
Mind you, only 1.8% of that is new growth. The rest is a radical shift in
resources, away from the needs of our bigger citizens to . . . well,
whatever we and our overlords would spend these extra billions on.
First, let's put the meat on that $487 billion. The estimates below assume
the average American adult is at least 20 pounds overweight, a figure
nutritionists see as fair.
Savings on fuel for cars and airlines due to their lighter loads would top
$5 billion, according to industry studies. Researchers say each overweight
driver burns about 18 additional gallons of gas a year, or just under a
billion gallons altogether. Savings in the air are far greater: The
jet-fuel savings alone could double North American airlines' forecast 2008
profits to $3.8 billion and maybe persuade them to stop stranding
passengers because they can't afford the fuel for flights. As for oil
imports, they'd be dented by less than 1%.
Plus-sized clothing costs 10% to 15% more, so shoppers would save $10
billion on shirts, pants and dresses. And clothes might fit better too.
Cynthia Istook, an associate professor in textile apparel at North Carolina
State University, says the economies of making fewer sizes would be
tremendous. Clothing makers could then afford to offer more variety in hip
and bust sizes, rather than asking every woman to squeeze into an hourglass
shape.
Because 3,500 calories translates into a pound of fat, somewhere along the
way, America's 227 million adults have eaten 16 trillion calories too many.
That's 14 billion Big Mac meals, with fries and a soda. Eliminate those and
you wipe out $81 billion, or McDonald's past four years of sales.
If Americans were slim and maintained their weight by eating 150 fewer
calories a day (half a slice of pizza), that could snip roughly 6.5%, or
$20 billion a year, off U.S. farmers' sales (assuming no extra exports).
Bob Young, the American Farm Bureau's chief economist, says farmers would
cope. They'd switch some land from fattening seed oils and sugar beets to
fruits and vegetables. Or they might grow corn for ethanol, or even open a
hunting resort.
The medical costs of obesity-related problems such as diabetes, stroke and
heart disease run near $140 billion, or more than 6% of all health-care
costs. That ballpark figure was calculated by Joel Cohen, an economic
researcher for the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality, using data
from a 1998 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention study. Cohen reckons
that if no one were fat, medical insurance costs would fall -- to
everyone's delight -- and doctors and drug makers could do more preventive
care. That sounds good, but Roland Sturm, a senior economist for Rand in
Santa Monica, Calif., doubts anyone would pay for preventive care. More
likely, he says, some doctors would be on the street. "They could drive
cabs," he suggests.
Productivity in the workplace would jump as people took fewer sick days and
spent less time at work feeling unwell. Ross DeVol, the director of health
economics at the Milken Institute, says the loss of productivity due to
people showing up at work sick is "immense." Using a recent Milken report
on the subject, he calculates that if no one were obese, the added output
from workers and their caregivers would give the country a $257 billion
boost. That's 1.8% of GDP, enough extra output to allow businesses to hire
tens of thousands more workers or to raise wages, economists say. Or at
least, that's the theory. Given bosses' love of expanding their profits and
their own pay, you can count on some of this being spirited away. Just look
at 2000 to 2005, when worker productivity rose 16.6% while median wages
rose less than half that amount.
"Jenny Craig would be very unhappy" if everyone were slim, says Rand's
Sturm. And so she would, along with the rest of the $55 billion weight-loss
industry. Trimmed-down citizens would be swapping their diet pills for
bikinis and their gastric-banding for nose jobs.
What to do with all that money?
On top of these savings would be billions of dollars more. Manufacturers
and builders wouldn't have to make doorways bigger, car seats wider,
furniture stouter. Some even argue that global warming would slow a mite,
as consumption of gas, energy, fertilizer and methane-producing cattle
decreased.
Even without those extras, the $487 billion reshuffle of the economy would
put us on the spot. Exactly how would we spend all this freed-up cash?
Optimists sing about improving education or medical research. Others figure
we'd fritter away the money. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 93
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 29 Apr 2008 00:38:14 -0000, marge DeleteThis @nothing.org (Marge) wrote:
>http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/Advice/WhatIfNoOneWereFat.aspx
>
>What if no one were fat?
Who would idiots like you ridicule?
>Imagine a lean and healthy America: The savings on medical, fuel, food and
>other costs would be enough to give every U.S. household more than $4,000.
For charm school?
>
>By Shirley Skeel
>Editor's note: This is part of an occasional series on financial what-ifs.
>
>In the United States today, 66% of adults are overweight. Almost 33% of
>adults are obese, and 4.7% are morbidly obese, or more than 100 pounds
>overweight. But . . .
Yes and there is a fat guy under my bed right where Joe McCarthy said
the communists would be.
>
>What if nobody in America were fat?
What would brain stems do to keep themselves entertained with no one
to poke sticks at? How would they spend their day.
>
>We'd save billions of dollars in gas. Airlines would double their profits.
They would make this profit only because there are no fat people.
Never mind the bad management practices, poor financial habits and
waste.
>A dearth of diabetes and other diseases would save billions of dollars more
>-- and put thousands of doctors on the street.
Yes-remember that only fat people get diabetes. I guess a lot of thin
people would die becuase there would be no insulin available for them.
Id there is no diabetes, why have insulin?
> McDonald's would sell not Big Macs but little steamed chicken snacks -- or watch its profits melt
>away.
Yep-that is how they made their money you know. Being just like
everyone else.
> Productivity would rise, potentially creating tens of thousands more
>jobs or higher wages all around.
Right-that is becuase only fat people are lazy and take advantage of
employer amenities and do it every chance they can, right?
>
>Add up the savings up on health, food, clothing and efficiencies, and you
>could buy a professional home gym for every U.S. household -- or hand each
>$4,270 in cash.
Ad everyone would be so very happy grunting and groaning on a bowflex
and even the women would look like Mr. Universe.
>
>$487 billion in gas, sweat and stretch pants
Of course everyone knows that only fat people wear stretchy and comfy
clothes. Only fat people waste gas, right?
>Yes, it sounds a little wild, but the implications of a leaner, meaner
>country add up to a weighty $487 billion. That's almost 3.5% of gross
>domestic product, no small sum.
Come on, how are you gonna make the fat people disappear and put the
brain stems in charge?
>
>Mind you, only 1.8% of that is new growth. The rest is a radical shift in
>resources, away from the needs of our bigger citizens to . . . well,
>whatever we and our overlords would spend these extra billions on.
Of course, a blighted case of Aryan delusion. You don't want the
"bigger citizen" to even exist, do you?
>
>First, let's put the meat on that $487 billion. The estimates below assume
>the average American adult is at least 20 pounds overweight, a figure
>nutritionists see as fair.
Oh well, lets all make allowances for a fatter boy with titties.
>
>Savings on fuel for cars and airlines due to their lighter loads would top
>$5 billion, according to industry studies. Researchers say each overweight
>driver burns about 18 additional gallons of gas a year, or just under a
>billion gallons altogether.
Blame it all on the fat people.
> Savings in the air are far greater: The
>jet-fuel savings alone could double North American airlines' forecast 2008
>profits to $3.8 billion and maybe persuade them to stop stranding
>passengers because they can't afford the fuel for flights. As for oil
>imports, they'd be dented by less than 1%.
>
>Plus-sized clothing costs 10% to 15% more, so shoppers would save $10
>billion on shirts, pants and dresses. And clothes might fit better too.
>Cynthia Istook, an associate professor in textile apparel at North Carolina
>State University, says the economies of making fewer sizes would be
>tremendous. Clothing makers could then afford to offer more variety in hip
>and bust sizes, rather than asking every woman to squeeze into an hourglass
>shape.
>
As if the average shopper isn't confused enough as it is.
Fat people don't need clothing-god forbid that they have money to buy
what they want.
This proves that the inmates are trying to run the asylum.
LV
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."
---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."
---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Apr 30, 2008 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Apr 30, 9:02 pm, "jcderkoeing" <jcderkoe....TakeThisOut@ibm.com> wrote:
> "Monty" <mo....TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:20080501024056.358914E599@outpost.zedz.net...
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyB....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school as a
> >>kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
>
> > <snip>
>
> >>When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
> >>holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
> >>behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam war,
> >>so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me because I
> >>was about 120 pounds overweight.
>
> > <snip>
>
> > I'm calling bullshit!
>
> Because at age 46 he would have been born in 1962 and drafted at age 7?
Sorry! That was a typo! I meant to say 56 years old and NOT 46.
It was a typing error.
I have probably misspelled a few word as well, one is bound to make a
few mistakes when typing a long message.
I was born September 30, 1951, so my age of 46 was in error. I'm
actually 56.
It can happen to anybody!
Sorry about that! OK? >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Apr 30, 2008 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Apr 30, 8:40 pm, mo... RemoveThis @nowhere.com (Monty) wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyB... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
On Apr 30, 9:02 pm, "jcderkoeing" <jcderkoe... RemoveThis @ibm.com> wrote:
> "Monty" <mo... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> news:20080501024056.358914E599@outpost.zedz.net...
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyB... RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school as a
> >>kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
>
> > <snip>
>
> >>When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
> >>holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
> >>behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam war,
> >>so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me because I
> >>was about 120 pounds overweight.
>
> > <snip>
>
> > I'm calling bullshit!
>
> Because at age 46 he would have been born in 1962 and drafted at age 7?
Sorry! That was a typo! I meant to say 56 years old and NOT 46.
It was a typing error.
I have probably misspelled a few word as well, one is bound to make a
few mistakes when typing a long message.
I was born September 30, 1951, so my age of 46 was in error. I'm
actually 56.
It can happen to anybody!
Sorry about that! OK? >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: May 01, 2008 Posts: 1
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyBear.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>
>I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school as a
>kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
<snip>
>When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
>holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
>behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam war,
>so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me because I
>was about 120 pounds overweight.
<snip>
I'm calling bullshit! >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Jan 06, 2007 Posts: 10
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Monty" <monty.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:20080501024056.358914E599@outpost.zedz.net...
> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyBear.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school as a
>>kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
>
> <snip>
>
>>When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
>>holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
>>behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam war,
>>so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me because I
>>was about 120 pounds overweight.
>
> <snip>
>
> I'm calling bullshit!
>
>
Because at age 46 he would have been born in 1962 and drafted at age 7? >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Apr 29, 10:29 am, The Master
<tar... DeleteThis @nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Marge wrote:
> > What if no one were fat?
> > Imagine a lean and healthy America: The savings on medical, fuel, food and
> > other costs would be enough to give every U.S. household more than $4,000.
>
> If everyone was skinny, the fat people would buy less food, need to buy
> less gas to make their car move, save money on medical costs, things of
> that sort. The majority of the savings would go to the fat people. The
> only savings that an already skinny person gets would be do to the
> lowering of demand. Less gas bought means less demand, means lower
> prices. Very misleading story already, and that's only in the synopsys.
Flawed.
Fat people do not pay a fuel surcharge on airplanes. Assuming the
airlines didn't just take higher profits, and passed the savings
along,
all air travelers would benefit.
Similarly, if you are in a large group insurance and all the obesity
and diabetes related costs suddenly vanished, everyone in the group
benefits. There are no "obesity" surcharges in group insurance.
Medicare/Medicaid and other government taxes that might see
reduced costs with the reduction of the obese would flow to all as
well.
Clothing manufacture streamlining benefits all. Efficiency in
production
would lower costs across the board. Additional fabric saved would
lower demand for raw materials, again, reducing cost for all.
Reducing gas consumption. Yes, the formerly obese would yield the
highest benefit, but a reduction in demand (due to cutting the obese
excess demand) would reduce costs across the board. You, Master,
would yield a higher benefit than me, but a high tide raises all
boats,
even the Hollywood machine.
Your dismissal shows weak thinking. Sorry. The rest isn't even
worth discussing, since you have yet to think through this at an
adequate level. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Nov 02, 2007 Posts: 6
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:07 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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FatTeddyBear.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> On Apr 30, 9:02 pm, "jcderkoeing" <jcderkoe....RemoveThis@ibm.com> wrote:
>> "Monty" <mo....RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:20080501024056.358914E599@outpost.zedz.net...
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyB....RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school
>>>> as a kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
>>>> holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
>>>> behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam
>>>> war, so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me
>>>> because I was about 120 pounds overweight.
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>> I'm calling bullshit!
>>
>> Because at age 46 he would have been born in 1962 and drafted at age
>> 7?
>
> Sorry! That was a typo! I meant to say 56 years old and NOT 46.
>
> It was a typing error.
>
> I have probably misspelled a few word as well, one is bound to make a
> few mistakes when typing a long message.
>
> I was born September 30, 1951, so my age of 46 was in error. I'm
> actually 56.
>
> It can happen to anybody!
>
> Sorry about that! OK?
Nope, a Jap would at least have the decency to disembowel itself.
Dont make a mess of the carpet. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Oct 07, 2007 Posts: 100
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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On Thu, 1 May 2008, Hollywood wrote:
>> If everyone was skinny, the fat people would buy less food, need to buy
>> less gas to make their car move, save money on medical costs, things of
>> that sort. The majority of the savings would go to the fat people. The
>> only savings that an already skinny person gets would be do to the
>> lowering of demand. Less gas bought means less demand, means lower
>> prices. Very misleading story already, and that's only in the synopsys.
>
> Flawed.
> Fat people do not pay a fuel surcharge on airplanes.
They do on South West, where they are forced to purchase two tickets.
> Assuming the
> airlines didn't just take higher profits,
Now THAT is flawed thinking... A company willing to give back profits?
:p
> Similarly, if you are in a large group insurance and all the obesity
> and diabetes related costs suddenly vanished, everyone in the group
> benefits. There are no "obesity" surcharges in group insurance.
And that affects everyone, that is true. In my quick retort to the faulty
article, I neglected to specifically address group insurance rates.
> Medicare/Medicaid and other government taxes that might see
> reduced costs with the reduction of the obese would flow to all as
> well.
So all the previously fat people get to live to a ripe old age, with lots
of other medical issues that Medicare/Medicaid and other government
agencies have to deal with instead. Like I said, much of the "savings" is
taken back in other costs.
Articles like the original are based on a static economy. If you take
away one thing that costs money, the rest of the system continues to
function as is. Thinking like that might make good "MSM Money" articles,
but are bad economics.
> Clothing manufacture streamlining benefits all. Efficiency in
> production would lower costs across the board.
And you think they will need to keep as many workers due to the effeciency
increase? Yes, it takes less time to make a size 4 dress then a size 24.
So why on earth would they need to employ the same number of workers? Eh?
See my point? And what about the fact that unemployed workers tend to
spend less then they did when they had jobs? The economy is NOT static.
> Additional fabric saved would
> lower demand for raw materials, again, reducing cost for all.
And put the producers of that material in a financial bind, until enough
of them go bankrupt and thusly lower supply.
> Reducing gas consumption. Yes, the formerly obese would yield the
> highest benefit, but a reduction in demand (due to cutting the obese
> excess demand) would reduce costs across the board.
Exactly what I said. The skinny people will only see benefit from the
lower demand pushing prices down.
> Your dismissal shows weak thinking.
No, it means I'm not silly enough to think the economy is static. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 93
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:24 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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On 1 May 2008 02:40:57 -0000, monty.DeleteThis@nowhere.com (Monty) wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyBear.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school as a
>>kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
>
><snip>
>
>>When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
>>holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
>>behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam war,
>>so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me because I
>>was about 120 pounds overweight.
>
><snip>
>
>I'm calling bullshit!
>
Call bullshit all you want. It can happen. Is Bullshit your little
brother?
LV
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."
---Sympathy for the Devil-The Rolling Stones
--------------------------------------------
"A fanatic cannot change his mind and will not
change the subject."
---Winston Churchill
----------------------------------------------
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Aug 28, 2007 Posts: 93
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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On Thu, 01 May 2008 03:02:48 GMT, "jcderkoeing" <jcderkoenig.TakeThisOut@ibm.com>
wrote:
>
>"Monty" <monty.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:20080501024056.358914E599@outpost.zedz.net...
>> On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FatTeddyBear.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>I grew up knowing about the cost of hatred when I went to school as a
>>>kid, back in the 1960s. I'm 46 years old now.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>When I turned 18, I was in no condition mentally and emotionally to
>>>holed a job, so my mother had to file a claim for disability on my
>>>behalf, and of course, this was back in 1969 during the Viet Nam war,
>>>so I had to register for the draft, but the Army reject me because I
>>>was about 120 pounds overweight.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I'm calling bullshit!
>>
>>
>
>Because at age 46 he would have been born in 1962 and drafted at age 7?
>
If brain stems can lie about their age and human status, fat people
can lie about their age.
LV
"I rode a tank and held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank."
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http://www.usenet.com >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:28 am
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On May 1, 2:48 pm, The Master <tar....DeleteThis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008, Hollywood wrote:
> >> If everyone was skinny, the fat people would buy less food, need to buy
> >> less gas to make their car move, save money on medical costs, things of
> >> that sort. The majority of the savings would go to the fat people. The
> >> only savings that an already skinny person gets would be do to the
> >> lowering of demand. Less gas bought means less demand, means lower
> >> prices. Very misleading story already, and that's only in the synopsys.
>
> > Flawed.
> > Fat people do not pay a fuel surcharge on airplanes.
>
> They do on South West, where they are forced to purchase two tickets.
Uhm, yeah, except that policy is the exception, not the norm. And
you'd
have to be very obese to have to buy two tickets. When I was 270, I
could cram into a small airline seat. It wasn't comfortable, but it
didn't
require an extra fare.
> > Assuming the
> > airlines didn't just take higher profits,
>
> Now THAT is flawed thinking... A company willing to give back profits?
> :p
Market competition. Someone would to take higher market share.
Google for "airline fare war". Lively up your mind.
> > Similarly, if you are in a large group insurance and all the obesity
> > and diabetes related costs suddenly vanished, everyone in the group
> > benefits. There are no "obesity" surcharges in group insurance.
>
> And that affects everyone, that is true. In my quick retort to the faulty
> article, I neglected to specifically address group insurance rates.
>
> > Medicare/Medicaid and other government taxes that might see
> > reduced costs with the reduction of the obese would flow to all as
> > well.
>
> So all the previously fat people get to live to a ripe old age, with lots
> of other medical issues that Medicare/Medicaid and other government
> agencies have to deal with instead. Like I said, much of the "savings" is
> taken back in other costs.
Of course, the ones who object to these other costs are welcome to
eat their guns and save the rest of us the cost. The author noted that
only 1.8% of the $487B would be new growth. The rest would be
available for redirection. The manufacturing savings and engineering
costs alone would probably lower costs. Can you imagine having to
engineer a truck to be comfortable for everyone from Kate Moss to
you? The cost savings pointed to in the article are only the obvious
ones.
> Articles like the original are based on a static economy. If you take
> away one thing that costs money, the rest of the system continues to
> function as is. Thinking like that might make good "MSM Money" articles,
> but are bad economics.
Hrm. The article is weak headed on this point. What do you expect? It
doesn't really affect many of your contentions.
Non-obese workers (even desk jockeys) are more productive in pretty
much every study that's been done on this. If telephone customer
service reps are more efficient when not obese (true), your contention
"f I was skinny, my productivity wouldn't be affected." Regardless of
the speed at which you sit on your ass. You take more sick leave or
more breaks or whatever. And before you build the smoking strawman,
I concede that elimination of smoking would have some pretty big
economic impact, particularly along productivity and group health
insurance lines.
> > Clothing manufacture streamlining benefits all. Efficiency in
> > production would lower costs across the board.
>
> And you think they will need to keep as many workers due to the effeciency
> increase? Yes, it takes less time to make a size 4 dress then a size 24.
> So why on earth would they need to employ the same number of workers? Eh?
> See my point? And what about the fact that unemployed workers tend to
> spend less then they did when they had jobs? The economy is NOT static.
I don't think it takes less time to make a size 4 than a 24, but I
will
leave knowledge on all things dresses to you. The gain I see is not in
piece efficiency (already fairly high). It's in materials (it clearly
takes
more fabric to make a size 24 anything than a size 4 anything), and in
set up. If you have a factory line, making khaki pants, resizing means
doing a reset on some of the machines. This eats time. Lot of people
make large money figuring out optimal batch sizes to optimize set ups.
If, in this hypothetical world, you can take out everything from size
12
and up, that's fewer set ups. More efficient production. Using less
material.
One more thing: most clothing bought in the US is not made in the US.
So those lost jobs are lost Chinese and Taiwan jobs. Yes, the
economies
are all linked, BUT, a million unemployed Chinese garment workers
don't
have much impact on an American consumer's ability to spend. Sorry,
you're wrong on this.
> > Additional fabric saved would
> > lower demand for raw materials, again, reducing cost for all.
>
> And put the producers of that material in a financial bind, until enough
> of them go bankrupt and thusly lower supply.
Over the long haul, everyone is dead. Ramping down factories in longer
haul than the price reduction. It's unlikely that supply would drop
drastically enough to return material prices to current real dollar
levels.
> > Reducing gas consumption. Yes, the formerly obese would yield the
> > highest benefit, but a reduction in demand (due to cutting the obese
> > excess demand) would reduce costs across the board.
>
> Exactly what I said. The skinny people will only see benefit from the
> lower demand pushing prices down.
So, an obese person gets 18 gallons a year back in their pocket. And
a 5% reduction on cost for the other 500. An already normal person
gets the 5% reduction on cost for the 500 gallons of gas. I think
everyone is happy with that outcome.
> > Your dismissal shows weak thinking.
>
> No, it means I'm not silly enough to think the economy is static.
Lack of vision. You're getting better, but you're still not seeing it.
Not that it matters. It's a hypothetical exercise.
As a side question, I wonder what kind of car the Master drives.
Hollywood drives a Volvo s80, 1998. Will be trading out for a
smaller car in the next two-three years. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Oct 07, 2007 Posts: 100
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:50 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 3 May 2008, Hollywood wrote:
>>> As a side question, I wonder what kind of car the Master drives.
>>
>>> Hollywood drives a Volvo s80, 1998. Will be trading out for a
>>> smaller car in the next two-three years.
>>
>> 2005 Kia Rio, that gets a real MPG of 30. What do you get on that Volvo?
>
> I actually get about 1 month's use per full tank. I don't drive very
> much.
That doesn't tell me what your MPG is. Do this little test. Next time
you fill up on gas, set the trip meter to 0. Drive as you normally do.
When it's time for the next fill-up, divide the number on your trip meter
by the gallons you put in your tank.
I'm curious as to what you are getting. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Oct 07, 2007 Posts: 100
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:33 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 7 May 2008, Hollywood wrote:
> Missing the point. That's apples to oranges. A normal sized person
> and a fat sized person, driving the same car,
But they don't
> the same way,
But they don't
> directly
> off the factory lot, consecutive serial numbers, with the same
> maintenance
> routine,
But they don't
> the fat sized person will use more gas.
Under your above conditions that don't exist in the "real world", I'll
agree. But anyplace out side of Disneyland, more gas would be saved if
the government outlawed SUVs then if there were no fat people. Why don't
someone make an MSN money comentary about that?
> Till then, if you were the obese man who sat ON
> me on the bus yesterday,
ON you? As in he didn't aim his butt properly and it was momentarily on
your thigh, or was he like in your lap the entire trip?
> in Alexandria VA, going to Mark Center, in
> the
> 85* and 90% humidity, you might want to stop worrying about your
> rights long enough to worry about the rights of the squished, crammed
> hot and now sweaty thanks to you people who ride next to you on that
> mass transit.
Yeah. Damn fat people shouldn't be allowed out on public transit...
*rolls eyes* >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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Since: Oct 07, 2007 Posts: 100
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:48 pm
Post subject: Re: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 6 May 2008, Fat Teddy Bear wrote:
> I skinny person weighing only 90 pounds driving an SUV or a Hummer
> will use up more gasoline than a 400 pound fat person driving a Honda
> Civic.
Don't you know? In MSN fantasy land, everyone drives the exact same
car, the economy is totally static, and cost savings affect everyone
equally. >> Stay informed about: MSN Money: What if no one were fat? |
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