Low Weights but High Intensity for Bodybuilding (semi long)

On Jul 4, 7:11 pm, fivefourteen <artyspo....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have been training with a trainer recently, around 3 weeks. His
> advice is so different from what I have learned that I wanted to hear
> other experiences.
>
> My goal is bodybuilding (not competitive), i'm 5'8" 180 lbs. Been
> workout for a while and in decent shape. Let us take for instance, ez
> bar curl biceps. I would normally do ez bar curls 70lbs (warmup)..100
> (10,8,6 reps) then 70 for pump. The trainer is really buff (5'6"
> 220lbs) and seems really knowledgeable. With him, I would start at 50
> lbs and do "one and a half" reps for 12 cycles then immediately drop
> down to a "frog" rep doing 10 more straight reps and then 10 burns
> (super tiny reps). Then progress to 60lbs. So my weights are much less
> now but I do get more pump.
>
> Compounded by the fact that I had lunch with my trainer and another
> bodybuilder who says that he never curls more than 20 dumbells! And
> for shoulder lateral raises he never goes above 10lbs in isolated
> range movements. I was shock. How is that possible? He had huge arms.
> Is it really just about the pump. My trainer said though it is
> possible to gain alot of mass JUST hitting below 70% of your one rep
> max, he recommends one set to be heavy but most set be below your 70%
> one rep max for intensity and burn. He told me that I have been mostly
> training for strength not bodybuilding.
>
> Comments?



Well, I'm a firm believer now in genetics. At 35 my physique looks
much (within 85-90%) as it did when I was at my fighting best when I
was 21-27. I have only returned to the gym in all seriousness this
year, after a 4 or 5 year hiatus and though I was 70 lbs. fatter and
back to square one in terms of strength, endurance, and flexibility,
I'm now back in the outskirts of that neighborhood of where I had been
at my fighting best.

So I'm a big believer in genetics and luck. Sure I worked hard, but I
know I didn't give my 100% best and yet I'm well on my way back
towards "prime time." So I think that important disclaimer needs to
be acknowledged right away so that further discussion takes place
within a realistic context.

Thus, I'm not too surprised that the big-shouldered dude never went
above, as you report, 10-lbs. for lateral raises or 20-lbs. for biceps
curls. I believe that "the truth will out," and in a bodybuilding
situation that truth is what that person is made of, namely,
genetics. I mean, we all have met folks in school who read a book
once and remember it. I myself have difficulties grasping
mathematical concepts (takes me many "reps," just like bodybuilding!)
but when it comes to the humanities, particular the arts and foreign
languages, I pick things up very easily.

Likewise, I do absolutely no calf work but my calves rival that of
many pro (steroid-induced) bodybuilders. On the other hand, I seem to
have a pencil-neck, no matter my lifts (but I've only just recently
adopted exercises like the deadlift, so we'll see). The rest of me I
have to work, to varying degrees for varying results.
 >> Stay informed about: Low Weights but High Intensity for Bodybuilding (semi long) 

Oh, and BTW, "pump" seems overrated. It's just blood gushing
through...feels good -- any feedback is welcome, I think -- but it
means nothing, really, with reference to strength or even mass and
appearance. Likewise, "burn" is, IIRC, lactic acid buildup...quite
gratifying to the ego, but not much having to do with actual real
progress. (I even enjoy the feeling of DOMS, that soreness the next
day or so from a hard workout, though I rarely ever get them anymore
-- yet I'm still making progress, you see!)

There's nothing wrong with training for strength, as opposed to
bodybuilding or appearance...actually, I'm not entirely certain that
there's much of a difference (except when, for example, bodybuilders
are advised not to work the obliques too hard so as not to preclude
the thin waist which helps with overall torso v-taper)...then again,
"strength training" implies something like powerlifting, where the
focus is on one-rep maxes as opposed to the low-weight/high-rep
regimen you are undertaking...so I guess it depends on what you (and
your trainer) mean by "strength"....



On Jul 4, 7:11 pm, fivefourteen <artyspo... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > I have been training with a trainer recently, around 3 weeks. His
> > advice is so different from what I have learned that I wanted to hear
> > other experiences.
>
> > My goal is bodybuilding (not competitive), i'm 5'8" 180 lbs. Been
> > workout for a while and in decent shape. Let us take for instance, ez
> > bar curl biceps. I would normally do ez bar curls 70lbs (warmup)..100
> > (10,8,6 reps) then 70 for pump. The trainer is really buff (5'6"
> > 220lbs) and seems really knowledgeable. With him, I would start at 50
> > lbs and do "one and a half" reps for 12 cycles then immediately drop
> > down to a "frog" rep doing 10 more straight reps and then 10 burns
> > (super tiny reps). Then progress to 60lbs. So my weights are much less
> > now but I do get more pump.
>
> > Compounded by the fact that I had lunch with my trainer and another
> > bodybuilder who says that he never curls more than 20 dumbells! And
> > for shoulder lateral raises he never goes above 10lbs in isolated
> > range movements. I was shock. How is that possible? He had huge arms.
> > Is it really just about the pump. My trainer said though it is
> > possible to gain alot of mass JUST hitting below 70% of your one rep
> > max, he recommends one set to be heavy but most set be below your 70%
> > one rep max for intensity and burn. He told me that I have been mostly
> > training for strength not bodybuilding.
>
> > Comments?
 >> Stay informed about: Low Weights but High Intensity for Bodybuilding (semi long) 

"fivefourteen" <artysporty.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> schreef:

> My goal is bodybuilding (not competitive), i'm 5'8" 180 lbs. Been
> workout for a while and in decent shape. Let us take for instance, ez
> bar curl biceps. I would normally do ez bar curls 70lbs (warmup)..100
> (10,8,6 reps) then 70 for pump. The trainer is really buff (5'6"
> 220lbs) and seems really knowledgeable. With him, I would start at 50
> lbs and do "one and a half" reps for 12 cycles then immediately drop
> down to a "frog" rep doing 10 more straight reps and then 10 burns
> (super tiny reps). Then progress to 60lbs. So my weights are much less
> now but I do get more pump.

Try this;

Do several sets of 8 reps, and work your way way up to weight that feels
perfect for 8 reps. Take as long as you want between sets. Usually 2-3
minutes. Do NOT work to failure. The whole point is strong contractions.

After several heavy sets, do a set to failure and do 4 negatives. Just throw
that weight to your shoulders and let it lower as slow as possible.

Take of 20 pounds and repeat. And another set with 20 pouns less. So you end
with 60.

That way, you worked heavy AND you got a massive pump.

> Compounded by the fact that I had lunch with my trainer and another
> bodybuilder who says that he never curls more than 20 dumbells! And
> for shoulder lateral raises he never goes above 10lbs in isolated
> range movements. I was shock. How is that possible? He had huge arms.
> Is it really just about the pump. My trainer said though it is
> possible to gain alot of mass JUST hitting below 70% of your one rep
> max, he recommends one set to be heavy but most set be below your 70%
> one rep max for intensity and burn. He told me that I have been mostly
> training for strength not bodybuilding.

> Comments?

Dont make the mistake that most guys do, meaning strength as opposed to
growth. They go hand in hand. Check out the size of PLers, and check out the
quads of weightlifters. They trained for pure strength/power for years, but
they grew anyway...

Given what he has stated, sure, you can get huge muscles with 70% of your
1RM.

Just make sure that in a few years your 1RM for curls is 250 pounds, so you
are doing sets with 175.
Thats a realistic goal, and if you do what i suggested above, your arms will
blow up. If you eat enough.

Also keep in mind that you can easily do 12 reps with 70%. And if you
specialize in doing movements in the 12-15 rep range, keep in mind that
after several years of specializing in that given rep range, there will be
an adaption to that given range, and you can actually do 75% for 12-15 reps,
and after 5 years or so you can actually become closer to 80% for 12-15.

Theoretically, the 1RM and 15RM are the same after 40 years of training.
Theoretically.

So you can progress in several different ways.

1) The weights, in absolute terms, become bigger.
2) Because you adapt to higher reps, your pump will become more intense and
you probaly can store more glycogen
3) You can do more than 12-15 reps with 70%
4) You work in the 12-15 range, but with MORE than 70%

I would choose for option 1, 2 & 4.

Those are the best options for growth.

You can apply the same principle to weights that are 75-80% at this moment.

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Low Weights but High Intensity for Bodybuilding (semi long) 

On Jul 5, 3:34 am, "Pete" <phouts....TakeThisOut@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "fivefourteen" <artyspo....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> schreef:
>
> > My goal is bodybuilding (not competitive), i'm 5'8" 180 lbs. Been
> > workout for a while and in decent shape. Let us take for instance, ez
> > bar curl biceps. I would normally do ez bar curls 70lbs (warmup)..100
> > (10,8,6 reps) then 70 for pump. The trainer is really buff (5'6"
> > 220lbs) and seems really knowledgeable. With him, I would start at 50
> > lbs and do "one and a half" reps for 12 cycles then immediately drop
> > down to a "frog" rep doing 10 more straight reps and then 10 burns
> > (super tiny reps). Then progress to 60lbs. So my weights are much less
> > now but I do get more pump.
>
> Try this;
>
> Do several sets of 8 reps, and work your way way up to weight that feels
> perfect for 8 reps. Take as long as you want between sets. Usually 2-3
> minutes. Do NOT work to failure. The whole point is strong contractions.
>
> After several heavy sets, do a set to failure and do 4 negatives. Just throw
> that weight to your shoulders and let it lower as slow as possible.
>
> Take of 20 pounds and repeat. And another set with 20 pouns less. So you end
> with 60.
>
> That way, you worked heavy AND you got a massive pump.
>
> > Compounded by the fact that I had lunch with my trainer and another
> > bodybuilder who says that he never curls more than 20 dumbells! And
> > for shoulder lateral raises he never goes above 10lbs in isolated
> > range movements. I was shock. How is that possible? He had huge arms.
> > Is it really just about the pump. My trainer said though it is
> > possible to gain alot of mass JUST hitting below 70% of your one rep
> > max, he recommends one set to be heavy but most set be below your 70%
> > one rep max for intensity and burn. He told me that I have been mostly
> > training for strength not bodybuilding.
> > Comments?
>
> Dont make the mistake that most guys do, meaning strength as opposed to
> growth. They go hand in hand. Check out the size of PLers, and check out the
> quads of weightlifters. They trained for pure strength/power for years, but
> they grew anyway...
>
> Given what he has stated, sure, you can get huge muscles with 70% of your
> 1RM.
>
> Just make sure that in a few years your 1RM for curls is 250 pounds, so you
> are doing sets with 175.
> Thats a realistic goal, and if you do what i suggested above, your arms will
> blow up. If you eat enough.
>
> Also keep in mind that you can easily do 12 reps with 70%. And if you
> specialize in doing movements in the 12-15 rep range, keep in mind that
> after several years of specializing in that given rep range, there will be
> an adaption to that given range, and you can actually do 75% for 12-15 reps,
> and after 5 years or so you can actually become closer to 80% for 12-15.
>
> Theoretically, the 1RM and 15RM are the same after 40 years of training.
> Theoretically.
>
> So you can progress in several different ways.
>
> 1) The weights, in absolute terms, become bigger.
> 2) Because you adapt to higher reps, your pump will become more intense and
> you probaly can store more glycogen
> 3) You can do more than 12-15 reps with 70%
> 4) You work in the 12-15 range, but with MORE than 70%
>
> I would choose for option 1, 2 & 4.
>
> Those are the best options for growth.
>
> You can apply the same principle to weights that are 75-80% at this moment.
>
> --
> Pete

Hi Pete,

Thank you for the reply. The trainer does say that the goal is to lift
heavier. I guess what is really different from what I have been used
to and what he is teaching me is the time spent in the RM(one rep max)
range. Before, I think i would spend most(if not all) of my time in
the 70%-85% RM range.He is telling me that only one exercise should be
in that range(75%-90%) and the rest should be 50%-75% RM range.
Basically cycle through a broad RM range but only sparingly in the
75%-90%RM, which is counterintuitive for me...but I guess i have to
give it a try because he does show me some exercises that I have never
seen before.

So I did try the shoulder lateral raises (seated slightly bending
forward) with very limited range of motion (20 degrees) horizontal to
lower, twice as slow on the negative. I guess with that range of
motion I can't do more than 15 lbs in good form for 12 reps. I guess I
have to start back to square one and work my way up to 30lbs (though
he said he has never passed 20lbs).

I figure with most of his routines, I get very little rest during the
set. E.G. the lateral raises have such limited range of motion that I
can't rest, I can't put the weights down to my side and have a
momentary rest before i lift it up.

Its all quite new and interesting to me. Cheers.
 >> Stay informed about: Low Weights but High Intensity for Bodybuilding (semi long)