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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 61) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)
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"Hobbes" <khobman800.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>> The motion of a cyclist is closer to a skater than a rummer. I am sure of
>> that.
> Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the side
> to impart force. Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you can go
> faster pushing sideways.
The only downside is that instead of, lets say, going 5km, the actual
distance travelled is closer to 6.
Dutch skaters probably go as much to the sides as possible.
And they have some weird exercises for that. Seems to work the adductors.
Which can be easily seen.
>> >> Do you think moving the arms in a way a sprinter does will make them
>> >> faster?
>> > On the basis that they are sprinting to the finish - YES!!!
>> Thats only the last 50 meters or so. They keep the arms motionless during
>> the actual race.
>> Im am sure of that.
> Except for corners, of course. Many skaters will free an arm during a
> corner, right?
Yes, for balance.
Otherwise they would fly straight against the boarding. And they shift their
bodyweight to the inside, and "hang inside" the curve.
If it wasnt for the curves, Gerard Van Velde would be the fastest in the
World.
Shimizu often beat him because he was much shorther, and went through the
cuirves more easily because his gravity centre was much lower.
----
Pete |
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 62) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2006-11-22 Pete napisał(a):
> "Hobbes" <khobman800 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> schreef:
>
>>> The motion of a cyclist is closer to a skater than a rummer. I am sure of
>>> that.
>
>> Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the side
>> to impart force. Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you can go
>> faster pushing sideways.
>
> The only downside is that instead of, lets say, going 5km, the actual
> distance travelled is closer to 6.
> Dutch skaters probably go as much to the sides as possible.
>
> And they have some weird exercises for that. Seems to work the adductors.
> Which can be easily seen.
I'm interested in seeing adductors of a female dutch speed skater.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 63) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-11-22 Bully napisał(a):
>> Hobbes wrote:
>>> In article <45648815$0$89131$dbd49001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
>>> "Pete" <phoutstra.RemoveThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>>>>
>>>>>> Just visualize this;
>>>>
>>>>>> A cyclist goes about 60 kilometers/hour. His arms dont move.
>>>>
>>>>> Apples <> oranges.
>>>>
>>>> The motion of a cyclist is closer to a skater than a rummer. I am
>>>> sure of that.
>>>
>>> Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the
>>> side to impart force.
>>
>> Cyclists push to the side ???
>>
>>
>>> Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
>>> can go faster pushing sideways.
>>
>> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a
>> straight line!
>
> Bully, you are arguing with a Canadian and a Dutch about skating.
> Dutch invented speed skating, for that matter. Is it possible that
> they know how to speed skate?
All I'm disputing is whether the arms [are used to] generate momentum. Pete
says NO, I say YES !!!
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 64) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>> I was severely overtrained, and nandrolone is perfect for eh...
>> recovery!
>> Yeah, thats the word. Recovery.
> Apparently anabolic steroids can boost sporting performance - but at a
> serious cost to long-term health!!!
YOU dont *know* that!
My liver, kidneys and cardio-vascular system is still *perfect.*
If i had problems related to usage, i am honest enough to post it.
Keep in mind that despite the fact that my first "cycle" was 23 years ago, i
had many years off, and used mostly injectables. Took my first cycle with
orals in 2002.
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 65) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Pete wrote:
> "Bully" <bully1.TakeThisOut@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
>>> I was severely overtrained, and nandrolone is perfect for eh...
>>> recovery!
>
>>> Yeah, thats the word. Recovery.
>
>> Apparently anabolic steroids can boost sporting performance - but at
>> a serious cost to long-term health!!!
>
> YOU dont *know* that!
Do so, it was on www.bbc.co.uk !!! I was searching for nandrolene at the
time  !
> My liver, kidneys and cardio-vascular system is still *perfect.*
>
> If i had problems related to usage, i am honest enough to post it.
>
> Keep in mind that despite the fact that my first "cycle" was 23 years
> ago, i had many years off, and used mostly injectables. Took my first
> cycle with orals in 2002.
>
> ----
> Pete
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 66) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>> Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the
>> side to impart force.
> Cyclists push to the side ???
They have no choice, Bully. Skating is NOT like running. I was trying to
tell you that.
You CANNOT push backwars, like running, while on the ice.
>> Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
>> can go faster pushing sideways.
> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a straight
> line!
You CANNOT skate in a straight line. Its impossible!
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 67) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Pete wrote:
> "Bully" <bully1 DeleteThis @proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
>>> Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the
>>> side to impart force.
>
>> Cyclists push to the side ???
>
> They have no choice, Bully. Skating is NOT like running. I was trying
> to tell you that.
> You CANNOT push backwars, like running, while on the ice.
We all know that but you muddied the waters by comparing skating to cycling!
>
>>> Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
>>> can go faster pushing sideways.
>
>> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a straight
>> line!
>
> You CANNOT skate in a straight line. Its impossible!
Then you can "glide" in a straight line...
>
> ----
> Pete
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 68) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2006-11-22 Bully napisał(a):
> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>> Dnia 2006-11-22 Bully napisał(a):
>>>
>>>> Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
>>>> can go faster pushing sideways.
>>>
>>> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a
>>> straight line!
>>
>> Bully, you are arguing with a Canadian and a Dutch about skating.
>> Dutch invented speed skating, for that matter. Is it possible that
>> they know how to speed skate?
>
> All I'm disputing is whether the arms [are used to] generate momentum. Pete
> says NO, I say YES !!!
No, you said that in running, where they are indisputably used, they
generate 10% of the force. It must be less than that for speed skating
due to lower speed of limb movement.
If they were doing 100m sprints on skates, arms would be important.
Probably in hockey they are important.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 69) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <ek26r8$ipm$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
Andrzej Rosa <bakters.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dnia 2006-11-22 Bully napisał(a):
> > Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> >> Dnia 2006-11-22 Bully napisał(a):
> >>>
> >>>> Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
> >>>> can go faster pushing sideways.
> >>>
> >>> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a
> >>> straight line!
> >>
> >> Bully, you are arguing with a Canadian and a Dutch about skating.
> >> Dutch invented speed skating, for that matter. Is it possible that
> >> they know how to speed skate?
> >
> > All I'm disputing is whether the arms [are used to] generate momentum. Pete
> > says NO, I say YES !!!
>
> No, you said that in running, where they are indisputably used, they
> generate 10% of the force. It must be less than that for speed skating
> due to lower speed of limb movement.
>
> If they were doing 100m sprints on skates, arms would be important.
> Probably in hockey they are important.
For shooting and punching...
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 70) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bully" <bully1.DeleteThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>> To tell you the truth, i am not sexually attracted to Yvonne.
> But, but, she thinks so much of you....
I knew she couldnt keep her mouth shut! Wimmin...
>> I like the Asian female sprinters. Great legs, wonderful shape!
>> And it seems they no problems bending over. And that means business
>> at the back door, BABY!
> Whoa!!!! Enough already!!!
WITH some artwork!
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 71) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Pete wrote:
> "Bully" <bully1 DeleteThis @proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
>>> To tell you the truth, i am not sexually attracted to Yvonne.
>
>> But, but, she thinks so much of you....
>
> I knew she couldnt keep her mouth shut! Wimmin...
>
>>> I like the Asian female sprinters. Great legs, wonderful shape!
>
>>> And it seems they no problems bending over. And that means business
>>> at the back door, BABY!
>
>> Whoa!!!! Enough already!!!
>
> WITH some artwork!
>
> ----
> Pete
Aaarrrgghhhh....
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 72) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Hobbes" <khobman800.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>> > Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the
>> > side to impart force.
>> > Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
>> > can go faster pushing sideways.
>> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a straight
>> line!
> Umm. Did I day otherwise? You go faster in a straight line by creating
> more force by pushing sideways. You go faster by pushing sideways!
Try pushing backwards on the ice and see what happens.
> Surely a Brit is not going to tell a Canuck how to skate?
> :^)
Or a Dutch guy, for that matter.
I think its highly suspicious that such a large Country doesnt have World
Class skaters...
Sure, they DO have World Class dart throwers...
And WE even beat them at THAT game!
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 73) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <45649794$0$197$dbd41001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra DeleteThis @wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Hobbes" <khobman800 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> >> > Yup. Been proven. Skating is weird in that you actually push to the
> >> > side to impart force.
>
> >> > Like sailing, it is counter-intuitive, but you
> >> > can go faster pushing sideways.
>
> >> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a straight
> >> line!
>
> > Umm. Did I day otherwise? You go faster in a straight line by creating
> > more force by pushing sideways. You go faster by pushing sideways!
>
> Try pushing backwards on the ice and see what happens.
>
> > Surely a Brit is not going to tell a Canuck how to skate?
>
> > :^)
>
> Or a Dutch guy, for that matter.
Hell - I wouldn't argue with a dutchman about speedskating!
:^)
But you can't play hockey worth stink...
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 74) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bully" <bully1.TakeThisOut@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>> Umm. Did I day otherwise? You go faster in a straight line by creating
>> more force by pushing sideways. You go faster by pushing sideways!
> Yes! Now, why do the arms move in a side-to-side fashion, to aid balance
> or generate momentum?
Did you allready finished that viewing assignment i gave you?
----
Pete
2nd lap 1500, Bully... >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 75) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Losing weight, except for arms? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bully" <bully1.DeleteThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>>> Cyclists push to the side ???
>> They have no choice, Bully. Skating is NOT like running. I was trying
>> to tell you that.
>> You CANNOT push backwars, like running, while on the ice.
> We all know that but you muddied the waters by comparing skating to
> cycling!
No, really.
The motion of a skater resembles the motion of a cyclist more so than a
runner.
>>> No, you can generate more force that way. You go faster in a straight
>>> line!
>> You CANNOT skate in a straight line. Its impossible!
> Then you can "glide" in a straight line...
Yes, but what *generates* that glide?
Last time i checked, i didnt see any jet-engines attached to their backs...
Next viewing assignment;
Whatch the Dutch skaters on the 5 and 10k...
Why do you think they move to the side? Because they enjoy going to the
side?
----
Pete >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? |
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