Losing weight, except for arms?

joanne wrote:
> On Nov 20, 6:19 am, willbr....TakeThisOut@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
>> Do you reallly think there is a special diet or exercise plan that
>> can
>> reduce fat from all over but not touch arms and chest?
>> Yes, yes, and no. Learn more about the effects of fat. Hint, some
>> fats
>> improve fat loss. Avoiding all fats is a mistake.
>> Er, no. Whole body must be worked
>> Are you trolling or do you really think this will work?
>> Whole body weight training Mon, wed, Sat. Aerobics, Tue, Thurs,
>> Fri. Sun, off. Moderate/high protein, moderate/low carbs, moderate
>> fat of the right types. Done.
>
>
> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?
> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...
>
> joanne

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

"Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:

>> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
>> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?

Will has at least one Y- chromosome.

>> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...

Its NOT BS little missy...

But even if it is, let us guys figure this out, okay?

Will, why should you train the entire body?

----
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

Dnia 2006-11-20 Pete napisa³(a):
> "Bully" <bully1.DeleteThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
>>> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
>>> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?
>
> Will has at least one Y- chromosome.
>
>>> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...
>
> Its NOT BS little missy...
>
> But even if it is, let us guys figure this out, okay?
>
> Will, why should you train the entire body?

Yeah, good question. To optimize muscle mass gains? Good for fat loss.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

In article <4561f22f$0$44708$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl>, "Pete"
<phoutstra.DeleteThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> "Bully" <bully1.DeleteThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>
> >> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
> >> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?
>
> Will has at least one Y- chromosome.
>
> >> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...
>
> Its NOT BS little missy...
>
> But even if it is, let us guys figure this out, okay?
>
> Will, why should you train the entire body?

For his goals, it's the best option. Whole body workouts are the most
under rated way of training. For his goals and being new to it, it the
most bang for his buck, works the most muscle in one shot, only requires 2
days per week in the gym, perhaps 3, the rest of which can be focused on
aerobics. A hybrid upper/lower split combined with a whole body workout is
quite effective also and one of my favorites. I thought Alwyn Cosgrove,
Chad Waterbury,
and Christian Thibaudeau did a nice job of covering the pros and cons of
whole body and different splits on T nation:


http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

Dnia 2006-11-20 joanne napisa³(a):
>
>
> On Nov 20, 6:19 am, willbr....TakeThisOut@comcast.net (Will Brink) wrote:
>> Do you reallly think there is a special diet or exercise plan that can
>> reduce fat from all over but not touch arms and chest?
>>Yes, yes, and no. Learn more about the effects of fat. Hint, some fats
>> improve fat loss. Avoiding all fats is a mistake.
>> Er, no. Whole body must be worked
>> Are you trolling or do you really think this will work?
>> Whole body weight training Mon, wed, Sat. Aerobics, Tue, Thurs, Fri. Sun, off.
>> Moderate/high protein, moderate/low carbs, moderate fat of the right types.
>> Done.
>
> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?

We did.

> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...

I wrote what I think in quite many words already. Should I copy&paste
it here?

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

Dnia 2006-11-20 Will Brink napisa³(a):
> In article <4561f22f$0$44708$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl>, "Pete"
><phoutstra.RemoveThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
>> "Bully" <bully1.RemoveThis@proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
>>
>> >> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
>> >> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?
>>
>> Will has at least one Y- chromosome.
>>
>> >> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...
>>
>> Its NOT BS little missy...
>>
>> But even if it is, let us guys figure this out, okay?
>>
>> Will, why should you train the entire body?
>
> For his goals, it's the best option. Whole body workouts are the most
> under rated way of training. For his goals and being new to it, it the
> most bang for his buck, works the most muscle in one shot, only requires 2
> days per week in the gym, perhaps 3, the rest of which can be focused on
> aerobics. A hybrid upper/lower split combined with a whole body workout is
> quite effective also and one of my favorites.

I thought you'll go this way, which obviously makes sense. More
muscles trained, more mass gained. Still, I doubt he'll be glad with
the results. Whole body workouts do not leave much time or gas for
arms or even chest. When will he see results closer to his goal of
gaining upper body mass and losing weight? By doing three full body
workouts a week and doing cardio the rest of the week, or by doing
three upper body sessions and doing cardio the rest of the week?

I vote for 3 x upper body. He'll be fresher for his cardio sessions
too. I say, give a guy what he wants. He has a chance to stay
exercising when he'll see his pecs and biceps every day in the morning.
Long term consistency beats slightly better program every time.

BTW - I do upper/whole split, if one wanted to make it a bodypart
split. I like the results too.

> I thought Alwyn Cosgrove,
> Chad Waterbury,
> and Christian Thibaudeau did a nice job of covering the pros and cons of
> whole body and different splits on T nation:
>
> http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967

I read the articles and the full threads. There was one problem which
nobody mentioned. If one hires a professional motivator to make
choices for him, things look different than when one has to make those
choices himself. Training legs is hard, no instant reward in mirror.
Many people become suddenly "overtrained" when legs day comes around.
To keep people exercising they must be able to see progress.

Most people start, but never come back. The key is to keep them around
iron.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

In article <ejtdev$4tb$1@inews.gazeta.pl>, Andrzej Rosa
<bakters RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dnia 2006-11-20 Will Brink napisa³(a):
> > In article <4561f22f$0$44708$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl>, "Pete"
> ><phoutstra RemoveThis @wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> >
> >> "Bully" <bully1 RemoveThis @proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:
> >>
> >> >> Geez so similar to what I suggested.
> >> >> Why not ask Will why you should workout the ENTIRE body?
> >>
> >> Will has at least one Y- chromosome.
> >>
> >> >> Funny why AR doesnt challenge him with the bs blah blah ...
> >>
> >> Its NOT BS little missy...
> >>
> >> But even if it is, let us guys figure this out, okay?
> >>
> >> Will, why should you train the entire body?
> >
> > For his goals, it's the best option. Whole body workouts are the most
> > under rated way of training. For his goals and being new to it, it the
> > most bang for his buck, works the most muscle in one shot, only requires 2
> > days per week in the gym, perhaps 3, the rest of which can be focused on
> > aerobics. A hybrid upper/lower split combined with a whole body workout is
> > quite effective also and one of my favorites.
>
> I thought you'll go this way, which obviously makes sense. More
> muscles trained, more mass gained. Still, I doubt he'll be glad with
> the results. Whole body workouts do not leave much time or gas for
> arms or even chest.

Sure they do, if you set them up correctly.

> When will he see results closer to his goal of
> gaining upper body mass and losing weight?

> By doing three full body
> workouts a week and doing cardio the rest of the week, or by doing
> three upper body sessions and doing cardio the rest of the week?

As you may recall, I didn't support that silly goal and never do. I don't
reward lazy people who just want to build/work X muscle. I will always
correct them that they need to work the entire body. Yes, i agree with
you, if he follows that goal of focusing on upper body and fat loss then
training just upper body and doing aerobics would probably get him to that
goal faster then whole body workouts, but as a newbie type, I am not
totally convinced the results would be much different and he would have
some lefs to boot. I don't know of any studies that have looked directly
at this, but it makes sense.

>
> I vote for 3 x upper body. He'll be fresher for his cardio sessions
> too. I say, give a guy what he wants.

I say help re direct him to a smarter goal that will serve him better in
the long run.

> He has a chance to stay
> exercising when he'll see his pecs and biceps every day in the morning.
> Long term consistency beats slightly better program every time.

That's a fair enough point, but personally I would rather see a person
start off on the right footing to begin with.

>
> BTW - I do upper/whole split, if one wanted to make it a bodypart
> split. I like the results too.

I have been doing something like that myself and have been happy with the
results and wished I had done it years ago.

>
> > I thought Alwyn Cosgrove,
> > Chad Waterbury,
> > and Christian Thibaudeau did a nice job of covering the pros and cons of
> > whole body and different splits on T nation:
> >
> > http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1333967
>
> I read the articles and the full threads. There was one problem which
> nobody mentioned. If one hires a professional motivator to make
> choices for him, things look different than when one has to make those
> choices himself. Training legs is hard, no instant reward in mirror.
> Many people become suddenly "overtrained" when legs day comes around.
> To keep people exercising they must be able to see progress.
>
> Most people start, but never come back. The key is to keep them around
> iron.

If keeping them around the iron is supporting them working only the
muscles the chicks dig (arms, chest, and abs) and ignoring all the other
bodyparts, then no, I don't agree.
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

In article <1163957099.016927.13780.RemoveThis@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Jeff
Thompson" <govols.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Cardio Cardio Cardio...........
>
> If you are sucking down 200 grams of protein a day you won't be losing
> weight anytime soon.

Not true. High P diets are superior to other diets for fat loss and
retention of LBM

> The old 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is a myth
> my friend.

It's a myth that it's a myth

> Sounds like you need to do an 8 week stretch of
> high-intensity cardio (30-45 minutes daily)

Proper HIIT is not 30-45 minutes per day

>with light to moderate
> weight training.

Nope.

> You've got 2 different goals that are working against
> each other right now......pack on the muscle up top and lose down
> below....will never work.

That much is closer to the thruth, but people new to it can in fact gain
LBM and lose BF at the same time, at least for a while.
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

Dnia 2006-11-21 Will Brink napisa³(a):
> In article <ejtdev$4tb$1@inews.gazeta.pl>, Andrzej Rosa
><bakters DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> > For his goals, it's the best option. Whole body workouts are the most
>> > under rated way of training. For his goals and being new to it, it the
>> > most bang for his buck, works the most muscle in one shot, only requires 2
>> > days per week in the gym, perhaps 3, the rest of which can be focused on
>> > aerobics. A hybrid upper/lower split combined with a whole body workout is
>> > quite effective also and one of my favorites.
>>
>> I thought you'll go this way, which obviously makes sense. More
>> muscles trained, more mass gained. Still, I doubt he'll be glad with
>> the results. Whole body workouts do not leave much time or gas for
>> arms or even chest.
>
> Sure they do, if you set them up correctly.

Well, yes. I'd agree, with some caveats.

>> When will he see results closer to his goal of
>> gaining upper body mass and losing weight?
>
>> By doing three full body
>> workouts a week and doing cardio the rest of the week, or by doing
>> three upper body sessions and doing cardio the rest of the week?
>
> As you may recall, I didn't support that silly goal and never do. I don't
> reward lazy people who just want to build/work X muscle.

How about athletes who ignore some muscles for the sake of performance?
Do you call them silly and lazy too?

> I will always correct them that they need to work the entire body.

Do you often correct boxers? How does it go?

> Yes, i agree with
> you, if he follows that goal of focusing on upper body and fat loss then
> training just upper body and doing aerobics would probably get him to that
> goal faster then whole body workouts,

Especially that it is what he *wants* to do.

> but as a newbie type, I am not
> totally convinced the results would be much different

Neither am I, especially when taking into account long term fat loss.
Whole body workouts are substantially more intensive and should result
in higher muscle mass gains. But long term psychology takes over
physiology anyway, so I opt for "give him what he wants" advise.

> and he would have
> some lefs to boot. I don't know of any studies that have looked directly
> at this, but it makes sense.
>
>>
>> I vote for 3 x upper body. He'll be fresher for his cardio sessions
>> too. I say, give a guy what he wants.
>
> I say help re direct him to a smarter goal that will serve him better in
> the long run.

Makes sense, too.

>> He has a chance to stay
>> exercising when he'll see his pecs and biceps every day in the morning.
>> Long term consistency beats slightly better program every time.
>
> That's a fair enough point, but personally I would rather see a person
> start off on the right footing to begin with.

Right, according to you and your goals.

>> BTW - I do upper/whole split, if one wanted to make it a bodypart
>> split. I like the results too.
>
> I have been doing something like that myself and have been happy with the
> results and wished I had done it years ago.

Same with me. Had I left stupid gyms ages ago and developed training
schedule independent of it *my life* would look different now.

>> I read the articles and the full threads. There was one problem which
>> nobody mentioned. If one hires a professional motivator to make
>> choices for him, things look different than when one has to make those
>> choices himself. Training legs is hard, no instant reward in mirror.
>> Many people become suddenly "overtrained" when legs day comes around.
>> To keep people exercising they must be able to see progress.
>>
>> Most people start, but never come back. The key is to keep them around
>> iron.
>
> If keeping them around the iron is supporting them working only the
> muscles the chicks dig (arms, chest, and abs) and ignoring all the other
> bodyparts, then no, I don't agree.

I have no problem with other guys trying to impress chicks. I only try
to make sure that they maintains some balance around shoulder joint to
prevent unnecessary injuries, but that's it.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

In article <45642b37$0$46251$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl>, "Pete"
<phoutstra RemoveThis @wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> "Will Brink" <willbrink RemoveThis @comcast.net> schreef:
>
> >> Do you call them silly and lazy too?
>
> > Depends.
>
> What criteria do you use to call somebody lazy?

When they start using juice 19 months into training.
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

"Will Brink" <willbrink.DeleteThis@comcast.net> schreef:

>> How about athletes who ignore some muscles for the sake of performance?

> Try the semantics game with someone else. Different population, different
> needs, different programs, and most athletes that ignore a muscle "for the
> sake of performance" are setting themselves up for an injury.

I dont think its semantics.

Speed skaters emphasize lower body and ignore upper body for 2 reasons.

1) They dont use the muscles in the upper body to go faster.
2) IF they develop the upper body, the centre of gravity gets outta whack,
and going trough curves becomes extremely difficult.

I suspect Olympic gymnasts do something similair by ignoring legs.

----
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms? 

In article <45641ffc$0$31638$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, "Pete"
<phoutstra.RemoveThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:

> "Will Brink" <willbrink.RemoveThis@comcast.net> schreef:
>
> >> How about athletes who ignore some muscles for the sake of performance?
>
> > Try the semantics game with someone else. Different population, different
> > needs, different programs, and most athletes that ignore a muscle "for the
> > sake of performance" are setting themselves up for an injury.
>
> I dont think its semantics.
>
> Speed skaters emphasize lower body and ignore upper body for 2 reasons.
>
> 1) They dont use the muscles in the upper body to go faster.
> 2) IF they develop the upper body, the centre of gravity gets outta whack,
> and going trough curves becomes extremely difficult.
>
> I suspect Olympic gymnasts do something similair by ignoring legs.

Which has nothing to do with joe average and his goals. One is performance
based and specific and comparing them to some guy who wants to lose weight
"except for arms" is stupid. Use Apples for apples examples.
 >> Stay informed about: Losing weight, except for arms?