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Next: On topic: problem with squats
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Proctologically Violated©
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External
Since: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 123
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:56 pm
Post subject: Leg curling vs. squatting
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)
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All--
What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never happened.
But in squatting, even cleans/jerks, even *weed-pulling*, my hamstrings are
*killed*--doms for days.
I woulda thought that leg curling would kill the hams, while squats etc.
would get mebbe the ass/lower back.
Any idears?
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, for *Anyone BUT* a Democrat or a Republican
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Life
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs |
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External
Since: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: 388
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
[...]
> What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
> I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
> machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never happened.
>
> But in squatting, even cleans/jerks, even *weed-pulling*, my hamstrings are
> *killed*--doms for days.
[...]
> Any idears?
Just one: That leg curling by X pounds wouldn't create the DOMS
response that squatting by 3X pounds would. Yes?
I mean which would cause DOMS more noticeably - bent rows with several
plates or dumbbell curls with the pink vinyl-covered one-pounders?
--
Curt |
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External
Since: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 47
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Curt wrote:
> Just one: That leg curling by X pounds wouldn't create the DOMS
> response that squatting by 3X pounds would. Yes?
In the hamstrings? Not for me. Squats and leg presses don't
sufficiently tax my hamstrings, which is why I train hams on a
different day to quads. But then, I'm not normal.
Stu >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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Proctologically Violated©
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External
Since: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 123
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:36 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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What do you do for hams?
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Stu" <sswain.DeleteThis@iname.com> wrote in message
news:1162439103.695333.253270@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Curt wrote:
>> Just one: That leg curling by X pounds wouldn't create the DOMS
>> response that squatting by 3X pounds would. Yes?
>
> In the hamstrings? Not for me. Squats and leg presses don't
> sufficiently tax my hamstrings, which is why I train hams on a
> different day to quads. But then, I'm not normal.
>
>
> Stu
> >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Proctologically Violated©
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External
Since: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 123
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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So what does a leg curl do, then?
--
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the Single Best Way
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Shute" <Shute.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:8euik2pci02sij3vvvkvh102j97csfe7rc@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:56:59 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
> <entropic3.14decay.DeleteThis@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>
>>All--
>>
>>What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
>>I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
>>machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never
>>happened.
>>
>>But in squatting, even cleans/jerks, even *weed-pulling*, my hamstrings
>>are
>>*killed*--doms for days.
>>
>>I woulda thought that leg curling would kill the hams, while squats etc.
>>would get mebbe the ass/lower back.
>>Any idears?
>
> From what I read hamstrings are worked with hip movement. The hips
> don't move during a leg curl so they are not an ideal lift. They do
> work the hamstrings but probably not as heavy as the squat does.
> Other exercises for hamstrings are Stiff Legged Deadlift, Good
> Morning, Standard Deadlifts, and Romanian Deadlifts. I don't really
> know which of these is best for the hams. They are much harder lifts
> to learn the leg curl and I haven't mastered any of them yet. >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:06 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Apr 15, 2006
Posts: 934
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:22 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Shute <Shute.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:56:59 -0500, "Proctologically Violated©®"
><entropic3.14decay.TakeThisOut@optonline2.718.net> wrote:
>
>>All--
>>
>>What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
>>I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
>>machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never happened.
>>
>>But in squatting, even cleans/jerks, even *weed-pulling*, my hamstrings are
>>*killed*--doms for days.
>>
>>I woulda thought that leg curling would kill the hams, while squats etc.
>>would get mebbe the ass/lower back.
>>Any idears?
>
>From what I read hamstrings are worked with hip movement. The hips
>don't move during a leg curl so they are not an ideal lift. They do
>work the hamstrings but probably not as heavy as the squat does.
Both work the hamstrings. Hamstrings are two-joint "bi-articulate"
muscles, with attachments above the hip joint and below the knee.
They both flex the knee and extend the hip. Leg curls and any hip
extension exercise will both work the hams. Squats work a lot more
muscle groups, though. >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:27 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Curt wrote:
> Proctologically Violated©® wrote:
> [...]
>
>> What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
>> I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus
>> type machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has
>> never happened.
>>
>> But in squatting, even cleans/jerks, even *weed-pulling*, my
>> hamstrings are *killed*--doms for days.
> [...]
>
>> Any idears?
>
> Just one: That leg curling by X pounds wouldn't create the DOMS
> response that squatting by 3X pounds would. Yes?
No, because there is only a 25% load transfer (or whatever) to the hams when
squatting.
>
> I mean which would cause DOMS more noticeably - bent rows with several
> plates or dumbbell curls with the pink vinyl-covered one-pounders?
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:11 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <ZC92h.46$FD2.18@newsfe11.lga>,
"Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14decay DeleteThis @optonline2.718.net>
wrote:
> All--
>
> What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
> I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
> machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never happened.
>
> But in squatting, even cleans/jerks, even *weed-pulling*, my hamstrings are
> *killed*--doms for days.
>
> I woulda thought that leg curling would kill the hams, while squats etc.
> would get mebbe the ass/lower back.
The hamstrings travel over two sets of joints - the knees and the hips.
They are somewhat unusual in that respect. They are prime movers in hip
extension, which is often not realized. So during the dynamic hip
extension of cleans and jerks they are really used quite heavily. Leg
curls, OTOH, only work them during the knee flexion movement. Unless you
are a bodybuilder you could probably throw out the leg curls machine and
just do cleans.
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <1162439103.695333.253270.TakeThisOut@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Stu" <sswain.TakeThisOut@iname.com> wrote:
> Curt wrote:
> > Just one: That leg curling by X pounds wouldn't create the DOMS
> > response that squatting by 3X pounds would. Yes?
>
> In the hamstrings? Not for me. Squats and leg presses don't
> sufficiently tax my hamstrings, which is why I train hams on a
> different day to quads. But then, I'm not normal.
>
You proabably aren't squatting ass-to-the-grass either, are you?
If you were your hamstrings would be taxed. I mean going heavy and down
to where your hamstrings touch your calves.
Most people I know who say squats don't work hamstrings are doing
partial squats.
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2005
Posts: 702
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <sCf2h.88$FD2.28@newsfe11.lga>,
"Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14decay DeleteThis @optonline2.718.net>
wrote:
> So what does a leg curl do, then?
Nautilus machine isolates knee flexion - very little hip extension. In
terms of the muscle 3 of the 4 segments could be thought of being worked
in a partial movement.
Another consideration is that eccentric contractions appear to cause
more soreness than concentric contractions. Which would explain why
weeding (okay - it is a static contraction, but same idea) makes the
hamstrings sore.
For me - sprinting really makes 'em sore.
--
Keith >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Feb 08, 2005
Posts: 319
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Pete wrote:
> "JMW" <jmwilliams.TakeThisOut@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> schreef:
>
>
> >>From what I read hamstrings are worked with hip movement. The hips
> >>don't move during a leg curl so they are not an ideal lift. They do
> >>work the hamstrings but probably not as heavy as the squat does.
>
> > Both work the hamstrings. Hamstrings are two-joint "bi-articulate"
> > muscles, with attachments above the hip joint and below the knee.
> > They both flex the knee and extend the hip. Leg curls and any hip
> > extension exercise will both work the hams. Squats work a lot more
> > muscle groups, though.
>
> Agreed!
>
> John, do you really think it matters at what end the hams are shortened?
I don't think it's so much "which end" as the complexity of the
movement. I suspect that a lot more motor units are recruited, and
firing frequency and patterns are higher and more complex, when
attempting to stabilize a heavy, complex movement like the back squat,
as opposed to an isolated single-joint movement like leg curls. By the
same token, you would probably find the same thing to be true when
comparing back squats to reverse hypers.
This, of course, is theory. I can't find any EMG studies that directly
support that theory. >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 1472
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14decay.RemoveThis@optonline2.718.net> schreef:
> What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
> I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
> machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never
> happened.
Its the stretch at the hip joint...
----
Pete
P.S. just because you got more DOMS doesnt mean squats are more effective
for hamstrings then curls... >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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External
Since: Nov 02, 2006
Posts: 377
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Leg curling vs. squatting [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <4549c493$0$21875$dbd4f001@news.wanadoo.nl>,
"Pete" <phoutstra.TakeThisOut@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
> "Proctologically Violated©®" <entropic3.14decay.TakeThisOut@optonline2.718.net> schreef:
>
> > What's the difference, specifically regarding the hamstrings??
> > I thought that by leg curling really heavy (face down, on Nautilus type
> > machine), I'd be killed by DOMS the next day. Yet this has never
> > happened.
>
> Its the stretch at the hip joint...
>
> ----
> Pete
>
> P.S. just because you got more DOMS doesnt mean squats are more effective
> for hamstrings then curls...
I get more DOMS in the hams from deadlifts depending on how I do them.
--
Peace, Om
Remove _ to validate e-mails.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson >> Stay informed about: Leg curling vs. squatting |
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