Knees and Squats :(

In news:1177552053.454216.98300@t38g2000prd.googlegroups.com,
thirtyplus.TakeThisOut@gmail.com <thirtyplus.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> typed:
> Hey all,
>
> I have been a long-time reader of this group.
>
> After a long layoff working out, I have started back in doing medium
> to high-intensity cardio and bodyweight exercises (bodyweight squats,
> pushups, pullups, crunches etc). I am doing this as prep for going
> back into training MMA / BJJ in May/June.
>
> My question: I have never done a whole lot of squats before seriously.
> I have done a little weight in the gym (several years ago) but was
> always too chickenshit WRT my form and possible injuries to push the
> weight up at all.
>
> The critique of my squat by those knowledgeable has told me that I
> lack hamstring flexibility...which causes my tailbone to tuck under at
> the bottom (near parallel).

It's highly unlikely that hamstring flexibility is the issue here (I have
chronically tight hammies & can squat ass to grass with no problem]. Glutes,
quads & your form in general are more likely to be the limiting factors. Has
anyone got the Dan John seminar link that will show how to work on squat
form?

>
> So question 1: What can i do to increase ham flexibility so I can go
> to paralell and beyond?

Can you squat below parallel without any weight on your shoulders?

[...]

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees
the opportunity in every difficulty." Sir Winston Churchill
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

On Apr 25, 10:47 pm, "thirtyp...@gmail.com" <thirtyp... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:
> So question 1: What can i do to increase ham flexibility so I can go
> to paralell and beyond?

Overhead squats helped a bunch, both with ham flexibility and squat
form. And they are a very good warmup.

> Question 2: I have been doing sets of 20-rep bodyweight squats to
> parallel (4-5 sets per workout). Recently I have noticed that my left
> knee has been making a light popping sound, and then, near the end of
> the workout, developed a sharp pain.
>
> To which I am thinking, GREAT. WTF....I am only doing bodyweight
> squats. My technique can't be THAT off.
>
> My knee is exhibiting this same behavior whether I am doing narrow
> stance or wider, angled-out.
>
> It's not like I'm old (24). I did run track and cross country in high
> school and stopped because of knee pain (mostly, I think in
> retrospect, due eto the fact that I was not doing full body workouts
> along with running, and so think the the pain was a result of muscle
> imbalance...)
>
> Any advice, suggestions etc muchly appreciated

My knee troubles while squatting were due to crashing down into a
deep squat without activating hams and glutes, and using tendon
rebound to get out of the hole. Don´t. Again, overhead squats, and an
emphasis in sinking between your legs, instead of folding like an
accordian, helped me.

Check this video on squat form by Dan John:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744

good luck
gluck
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

On Apr 25, 7:25 pm, "Steve Freides" <s....TakeThisOut@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> Kettlebell swings will also take care of this very nicely, but no one
> around here seems to like it when I say that. See my site for more on
> this one.

Thanks, I like kettlebells, have seen friends use them to good effect,
and do plan to start using them as soon as I can afford them. The anti-
kettlebell MFW doctrine is almost legendary.

> You squatting with your heels down or on the balls of your feet?

Heels down. In fact I squat so far back on my heels the ball is almost
not touching....I unbalance backwards (like almost falling) a lot. I
should probably lean forward a bit.

Thanks for the other suggestions.


>Can you squat below parallel without any weight on your shoulders?

Yup. Can go ass to grass, no pain, I'm just not used to it. However I
did more reading on squats last night and it seems that working full
ROM is probably better for the joints and, in fact, stopping at
parallel is probably the most disruptive for the joint.

Thanks all for other suggestions...and the video link. Cheers.
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

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 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

<thirtyplus DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177637933.824644.74970@t39g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 25, 7:25 pm, "Steve Freides" <s... DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>> Kettlebell swings will also take care of this very nicely, but no one
>> around here seems to like it when I say that. See my site for more
>> on
>> this one.
>
> Thanks, I like kettlebells, have seen friends use them to good effect,
> and do plan to start using them as soon as I can afford them. The
> anti-
> kettlebell MFW doctrine is almost legendary.

Proper form on the kettlebell swing will both strengthen and stretch the
hamstrings for most people - it certainly did for me.

>> You squatting with your heels down or on the balls of your feet?
>
> Heels down. In fact I squat so far back on my heels the ball is almost
> not touching....I unbalance backwards (like almost falling) a lot. I
> should probably lean forward a bit.
>
> Thanks for the other suggestions.
>
>
>>Can you squat below parallel without any weight on your shoulders?
>
> Yup. Can go ass to grass, no pain, I'm just not used to it. However I
> did more reading on squats last night and it seems that working full
> ROM is probably better for the joints and, in fact, stopping at
> parallel is probably the most disruptive for the joint.
>
> Thanks all for other suggestions...and the video link. Cheers.

The idea of trying squat variations like the overhead squat sounds good
to me, too. Front squat as well.

A good one for keeping the back from rounding is the wall squat - face a
wall in your normal squat stance and squat to below parallel, then keep
trying to move in until your toes are touching the wall. If you don't
learn to extend your spine in the right way, you won't be able to do it.
An important detail is to try to preserve the normal width and turnout
of your own squat stance - you can cheat and make this easier by turning
your feet out more.

A good thing to keep in mind is that what's potentially risky for your
back isn't just simply rounding or not. When, e.g., the load is more
vertical, the danger in rounding is much less. It's when the back gets
closer to horizontal that shearing forces increase. It's also worth
noting that many great lifters manage to round their backs while moving
heavy weights. The key here, as I understand it, is in distributing the
load across as much of the spine as possible. McGill talks about the
"hinge" as an issue in back injuries, where someone has a combination of
strong and weak areas in their spine and the back will therefore tend to
bend little if at all in the strong areas, placing too much of the load
in the weak areas.

I'm saying all this because you don't want to necessarily think your
ability to squat rock bottom with some lower back rounding is completely
bad - it's not. Having a more complete understanding of the issues
involved will hopefully help you make intelligent choices along the way.
McGills's book

http://www.backfitpro.com/ultbackbook.htm

is highly recommended reading on the subject. In your place, I'd give
the barbell overhead and front squats priority in your training for a
while and see how they work for you, and also use the wall squat (which
is explained very well in Pavel's "Strength Stretching"
http://www.kbnj.com/ss.htm ) a try as a warmup exercise.

All just my opinions, your mileage may vary, and all that.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

"Steve Freides" <steve DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> schreef:

> Kettlebell swings will also take care of this very nicely, but no one
> around here seems to like it when I say that.

I wonder why that is.

Most of the time you are giving solid, objective advice.

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

<thirtyplus RemoveThis @gmail.com> schreef:

> Thanks, I like kettlebells, have seen friends use them to good effect,
> and do plan to start using them as soon as I can afford them. The anti-
> kettlebell MFW doctrine is almost legendary.

And all this i was assuming that i was legendary.

Thanks for ruining my Sunday!

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

"Bully" <bully62 RemoveThis @proteinbars.co.ok> schreef:

> It's highly unlikely that hamstring flexibility is the issue here (I have
> chronically tight hammies & can squat ass to grass with no problem].
> Glutes, quads & your form in general are more likely to be the limiting
> factors.

I think that even with the tighest hams, you can squat all the way down.
Problem is, if those hams are relatively short, the hip is pulled towards
the knee and the back will round.

Its always beautyfull to watch how some people can scauat way below parallel
and still maintain that lordoic curve. Especially woman.

> Has anyone got the Dan John seminar link that will show how to work on
> squat form?

Yes, but it took me too long to watch.

BTW, all the knowledge that Dan has is stolen from me. And he doesnt want to
give it back.

>> So question 1: What can i do to increase ham flexibility so I can go
>> to paralell and beyond?

> Can you squat below parallel without any weight on your shoulders?

I think he can. But his back will round.

--
Pete
 >> Stay informed about: Knees and Squats :( 

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