Hey Cohen, about the diet

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:25:41 -0500, Dally <Dally RemoveThis @myself.com> wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>John Hanson wrote:
>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>> dropping weight?
>
>I think he cheated and went on the "Flu Diet". Drops weight fast, but
>makes you weak as a kitten.
>
I was referring to the one that he started at 256 or whatever it was.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

John Hanson <jhanson RemoveThis @northernlinks.com> wrote:
>Dally <Dally RemoveThis @myself.com> wrote:
>>John Hanson wrote:
>>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>>> dropping weight?
>>
>>I think he cheated and went on the "Flu Diet". Drops weight fast, but
>>makes you weak as a kitten.
>>
>I was referring to the one that he started at 256 or whatever it was.

You're inevitably going to lose some strength with any fat loss diet.
The point of a protein-sparing modified fast is to limit the loss of
muscle mass. If you continue training during such a diet (somewhat
lighter than usual) and engage in periodic refeeds; you probably won't
lose as much strength as you fear.

There are choices to be made. When I want to be lean and hard, I
generally maintain a body weight of 180-190 pounds. When I am
powerlifting, I maintain a body weight of 200-205 pounds, dropping to
195 pounds for weigh-in. Very few people can do both.

Nevertheless, after an extended period of "free feeding" and very
limited lifting due to work schedule, I lost strength and went up to
almost 215 pounds, anyway. Since January 3rd, I have dropped to under
190 pounds, and my training lifts are the same or almost the same as
they were in the past. That was using a protein-sparing modified fast
of my own design, with periodic refeeds increasing in frequency as
body fat decreased. I haven't read Lyle's program, but I understand
it's very similar to my own.

It's not the type of diet that you can, or would want to, sustain
indefinitely. However, you can ignore the paranoia from all the
Nervous Nellies whose knowledge of nutrition is based on trite
conventional wisdom, and whose advice is pretty much on the level of
"an apple a day ..."

--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:14:36 -0500, JMW
<jmwilliams.RemoveThis@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>John Hanson <jhanson.RemoveThis@northernlinks.com> wrote:
>>Dally <Dally.RemoveThis@myself.com> wrote:
>>>John Hanson wrote:
>>>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>>>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>>>> dropping weight?
>>>
>>>I think he cheated and went on the "Flu Diet". Drops weight fast, but
>>>makes you weak as a kitten.
>>>
>>I was referring to the one that he started at 256 or whatever it was.
>
>You're inevitably going to lose some strength with any fat loss diet.
>The point of a protein-sparing modified fast is to limit the loss of
>muscle mass. If you continue training during such a diet (somewhat
>lighter than usual) and engage in periodic refeeds; you probably won't
>lose as much strength as you fear.
>
>There are choices to be made. When I want to be lean and hard, I
>generally maintain a body weight of 180-190 pounds. When I am
>powerlifting, I maintain a body weight of 200-205 pounds, dropping to
>195 pounds for weigh-in. Very few people can do both.
>
>Nevertheless, after an extended period of "free feeding" and very
>limited lifting due to work schedule, I lost strength and went up to
>almost 215 pounds, anyway. Since January 3rd, I have dropped to under
>190 pounds, and my training lifts are the same or almost the same as
>they were in the past. That was using a protein-sparing modified fast
>of my own design, with periodic refeeds increasing in frequency as
>body fat decreased. I haven't read Lyle's program, but I understand
>it's very similar to my own.
>
>It's not the type of diet that you can, or would want to, sustain
>indefinitely. However, you can ignore the paranoia from all the
>Nervous Nellies whose knowledge of nutrition is based on trite
>conventional wisdom, and whose advice is pretty much on the level of
>"an apple a day ..."

Okay, thanks. As strong as I feel right now I'd like to just lift 242
but that doesn't work for me. Although I've had a good meet early in
the morning, I've also had a couple of bad ones so I'd rather go 220
in Texas instead of lifting at 9:00 AM in the 42s. Besides that, two
of my training partners will be lifting at 242 so I'd lose their help
and they, mine.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:27:25 -0600, John Hanson
<jhanson RemoveThis @northernlinks.com> wrote:

>and they, mine.

(reacharounds)
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

In article <ggad221jurs0kp84psobqo5lnn1vr2jk5f.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
John Hanson <jhanson.RemoveThis@northernlinks.com> wrote:

> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
> dropping weight?

Well, I'm not David but I did just drop some weight for strongman. In
early January I cut out refined carbs (save for ~30 g timed right around
my workouts) except for on one cheat meal during the week and one day on
weekends. I added 25 mg ephedrine / 200 mg caffeine 3x a day, did 1-2
20 min light cardio sessions a week, plus one or two longer walks/hikes,
and did hard interval-type (tire flip, truck drag, farmers walk)
strongman event training once a week on weekends plus one event at some
point during the week. I dropped 15 lbs in 10 weeks with no noticeable
strength loss except maybe in the press, and got stronger at the front
squat and events (may have been a skill component there though).

Once I hit my target weight (actually I dipped below it, didn't weigh in
often enough) I relaxed my diet a bit, still fairly clean though, and my
press is stronger than ever as well.

As I understand it the E/C stack wouldn't be a problem for you in the
USAPL as long as you stop more than a week out, but you'd want to double
check on that. Also you'd want to be sure to allow yourself time to
taper off of it or you will crash bad.

I still allowed myself carbs in the form of whole grains etc. I read
Lyle's PSMF book and even tried the strict version for a week but my
training went to hell.

--
My email address has been altered to prevent spam.
Take the "r" out of netscrape.net.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

"John Hanson" <jhanson.RemoveThis@northernlinks.com> wrote
> Dally <Dally.RemoveThis@myself.com> wrote
>>John Hanson wrote:
>>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>>> dropping weight?
>>
>>I think he cheated and went on the "Flu Diet". Drops weight fast, but
>>makes you weak as a kitten.
>>
> I was referring to the one that he started at 256 or whatever it was.

Yeah, that one. I can only assume I had some strength loss going from the
250's to the 200's. I did not test it, as I would have done it anyway. It
was a necessary lifestyle adjustment.

David
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:53:32 GMT, "David Cohen"
<sammiesdad.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>
>"John Hanson" <jhanson.DeleteThis@northernlinks.com> wrote
>> Dally <Dally.DeleteThis@myself.com> wrote
>>>John Hanson wrote:
>>>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>>>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>>>> dropping weight?
>>>
>>>I think he cheated and went on the "Flu Diet". Drops weight fast, but
>>>makes you weak as a kitten.
>>>
>> I was referring to the one that he started at 256 or whatever it was.
>
>Yeah, that one. I can only assume I had some strength loss going from the
>250's to the 200's. I did not test it, as I would have done it anyway. It
>was a necessary lifestyle adjustment.
>
Well, if you do it again soon, test it, will ya?
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:53:24 -0800, Will_S <satterwill DeleteThis @netscrape.net>
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>In article <ggad221jurs0kp84psobqo5lnn1vr2jk5f DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
> John Hanson <jhanson DeleteThis @northernlinks.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>> dropping weight?
>
>Well, I'm not David but I did just drop some weight for strongman. In
>early January I cut out refined carbs (save for ~30 g timed right around
>my workouts) except for on one cheat meal during the week and one day on
>weekends. I added 25 mg ephedrine / 200 mg caffeine 3x a day, did 1-2
>20 min light cardio sessions a week, plus one or two longer walks/hikes,
>and did hard interval-type (tire flip, truck drag, farmers walk)
>strongman event training once a week on weekends plus one event at some
>point during the week. I dropped 15 lbs in 10 weeks with no noticeable
>strength loss except maybe in the press, and got stronger at the front
>squat and events (may have been a skill component there though).

Well, I've got 6 weeks to drop 10 pounds. I want to be 225-226 by the
end of the week and maintain that weight for a couple of weeks or
perhaps drop a little more. I want to weigh about 221 on May 5th.

>
>Once I hit my target weight (actually I dipped below it, didn't weigh in
>often enough) I relaxed my diet a bit, still fairly clean though, and my
>press is stronger than ever as well.
>
>As I understand it the E/C stack wouldn't be a problem for you in the
>USAPL as long as you stop more than a week out, but you'd want to double
>check on that. Also you'd want to be sure to allow yourself time to
>taper off of it or you will crash bad.

Yes, that is correct.

>
>I still allowed myself carbs in the form of whole grains etc. I read
>Lyle's PSMF book and even tried the strict version for a week but my
>training went to hell.

I can understand that.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

Try the "reacharound diet", it works for me.

On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:49:10 -0600, John Hanson
<jhanson.RemoveThis@northernlinks.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:53:24 -0800, Will_S <satterwill.RemoveThis@netscrape.net>
>wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>In article <ggad221jurs0kp84psobqo5lnn1vr2jk5f.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
>> John Hanson <jhanson.RemoveThis@northernlinks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>>> dropping weight?
>>
>>Well, I'm not David but I did just drop some weight for strongman. In
>>early January I cut out refined carbs (save for ~30 g timed right around
>>my workouts) except for on one cheat meal during the week and one day on
>>weekends. I added 25 mg ephedrine / 200 mg caffeine 3x a day, did 1-2
>>20 min light cardio sessions a week, plus one or two longer walks/hikes,
>>and did hard interval-type (tire flip, truck drag, farmers walk)
>>strongman event training once a week on weekends plus one event at some
>>point during the week. I dropped 15 lbs in 10 weeks with no noticeable
>>strength loss except maybe in the press, and got stronger at the front
>>squat and events (may have been a skill component there though).
>
>Well, I've got 6 weeks to drop 10 pounds. I want to be 225-226 by the
>end of the week and maintain that weight for a couple of weeks or
>perhaps drop a little more. I want to weigh about 221 on May 5th.
>
>>
>>Once I hit my target weight (actually I dipped below it, didn't weigh in
>>often enough) I relaxed my diet a bit, still fairly clean though, and my
>>press is stronger than ever as well.
>>
>>As I understand it the E/C stack wouldn't be a problem for you in the
>>USAPL as long as you stop more than a week out, but you'd want to double
>>check on that. Also you'd want to be sure to allow yourself time to
>>taper off of it or you will crash bad.
>
>Yes, that is correct.
>
>>
>>I still allowed myself carbs in the form of whole grains etc. I read
>>Lyle's PSMF book and even tried the strict version for a week but my
>>training went to hell.
>
>I can understand that.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

"Will_S" <satterwill.RemoveThis@netscrape.net> wrote
> John Hanson <jhanson.RemoveThis@northernlinks.com> wrote:
>> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
>> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
>> dropping weight?
>
> Well, I'm not David but I did just drop some weight for strongman. In
> early January I cut out refined carbs (save for ~30 g timed right around
> my workouts) except for on one cheat meal during the week and one day on
> weekends. I added 25 mg ephedrine / 200 mg caffeine 3x a day, did 1-2
> 20 min light cardio sessions a week, plus one or two longer walks/hikes,
> and did hard interval-type (tire flip, truck drag, farmers walk)
> strongman event training once a week on weekends plus one event at some
> point during the week. I dropped 15 lbs in 10 weeks with no noticeable
> strength loss except maybe in the press, and got stronger at the front
> squat and events (may have been a skill component there though).
>
> Once I hit my target weight (actually I dipped below it, didn't weigh in
> often enough) I relaxed my diet a bit, still fairly clean though, and my
> press is stronger than ever as well.
>
> As I understand it the E/C stack wouldn't be a problem for you in the
> USAPL as long as you stop more than a week out, but you'd want to double
> check on that. Also you'd want to be sure to allow yourself time to
> taper off of it or you will crash bad.
>
> I still allowed myself carbs in the form of whole grains etc. I read
> Lyle's PSMF book and even tried the strict version for a week but my
> training went to hell.

Page 29: "I'd say cut weight training back to maybe once every 3-4 days (or
twice a week) or so, doing a full body workout with a few heavy sets per
bodypart in the 6-8 repitition range."

Let me put on my Atheist Jew Psychic Telepathy Hat, Will, and predict that
you didn't do this.

David
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

In article <C%EVf.10475$sL2.2503@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
"David Cohen" <sammiesdad.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "Will_S" <satterwill.DeleteThis@netscrape.net> wrote
> > John Hanson <jhanson.DeleteThis@northernlinks.com> wrote:
> >> Hey David, I know you were able to shed a lot of weight fairly quickly
> >> on Lyle's diet. But, did you ever test your strength levels while
> >> dropping weight?
> >
> > Well, I'm not David but I did just drop some weight for strongman. In
> > early January I cut out refined carbs (save for ~30 g timed right around
> > my workouts) except for on one cheat meal during the week and one day on
> > weekends. I added 25 mg ephedrine / 200 mg caffeine 3x a day, did 1-2
> > 20 min light cardio sessions a week, plus one or two longer walks/hikes,
> > and did hard interval-type (tire flip, truck drag, farmers walk)
> > strongman event training once a week on weekends plus one event at some
> > point during the week. I dropped 15 lbs in 10 weeks with no noticeable
> > strength loss except maybe in the press, and got stronger at the front
> > squat and events (may have been a skill component there though).
> >
> > Once I hit my target weight (actually I dipped below it, didn't weigh in
> > often enough) I relaxed my diet a bit, still fairly clean though, and my
> > press is stronger than ever as well.
> >
> > As I understand it the E/C stack wouldn't be a problem for you in the
> > USAPL as long as you stop more than a week out, but you'd want to double
> > check on that. Also you'd want to be sure to allow yourself time to
> > taper off of it or you will crash bad.
> >
> > I still allowed myself carbs in the form of whole grains etc. I read
> > Lyle's PSMF book and even tried the strict version for a week but my
> > training went to hell.
>
> Page 29: "I'd say cut weight training back to maybe once every 3-4 days (or
> twice a week) or so, doing a full body workout with a few heavy sets per
> bodypart in the 6-8 repitition range."
>
> Let me put on my Atheist Jew Psychic Telepathy Hat, Will, and predict that
> you didn't do this.

Actually, depending on your definition of "few" sets I came pretty
close, although I stayed down in the 3-5 rep range. But when your full
body workout consists of log cleans and presses, deadlifts standing on
blocks, and stone rows (like a T-bar row, but grabbing around the
plates) you're going to suffer on a low-carb diet. I probably could
have made the PSMF work but I figured I'd try losing the weight on a
more moderate diet with a much higher activity level first - pretty much
what Lyle recommends in place of a crash diet even in his book on crash
dieting. Worked well enough and got me in better shape for strongman to
boot.

--
My email address has been altered to prevent spam.
Take the "r" out of netscrape.net.
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet 

"Will_S" <satterwill.TakeThisOut@netscrape.net> wrote
> "David Cohen" <sammiesdad.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> "Will_S" <satterwill.TakeThisOut@netscrape.net> wrote
>> > I still allowed myself carbs in the form of whole grains etc. I read
>> > Lyle's PSMF book and even tried the strict version for a week but my
>> > training went to hell.
>>
>> Page 29: "I'd say cut weight training back to maybe once every 3-4 days
>> (or
>> twice a week) or so, doing a full body workout with a few heavy sets per
>> bodypart in the 6-8 repitition range."
>>
>> Let me put on my Atheist Jew Psychic Telepathy Hat, Will, and predict
>> that
>> you didn't do this.
>
> Actually, depending on your definition of "few" sets I came pretty
> close, although I stayed down in the 3-5 rep range. But when your full
> body workout consists of log cleans and presses, deadlifts standing on
> blocks, and stone rows (like a T-bar row, but grabbing around the
> plates) you're going to suffer on a low-carb diet.

Yeah. I don't care what Hanson says about you, you are smart

> I probably could
> have made the PSMF work but I figured I'd try losing the weight on a
> more moderate diet with a much higher activity level first - pretty much
> what Lyle recommends in place of a crash diet even in his book on crash
> dieting. Worked well enough and got me in better shape for strongman to
> boot.

Ultimate Diet 2.0

Much better for your purposes.

David
 >> Stay informed about: Hey Cohen, about the diet