Help me lose the fat

>I am female, 5'3 and approximately 400 pounds and age 43.

>I had a mild heart attack last year so I am desperate to get this
>weight off once and for all and for good. I have some questions and
>any other advise is welcome.
>I am
>dead serious about wanting to lose this weight but want to be treated
>with respect as well just as anyone else does.

First off have you tried something like weight watchers. You should be
able to lose fairly easily at your weight. You don't need to
complicate things yet. There is a support group on usenet - take a
look.

Talk to a doctor before you start exercising, especially if you have
heart problems. Also look on the net for exercises for people who are
obese. Lifting weights may not be a great idea for you until you've
lost some weight. Your joints are already stressed, lifting even more
weight may leave you with injuries.

>1. How much and how often should I do cardio on a weekly basis?

Start off slowly.
Walking is good to begin with. Start off with walking 15 minutes at a
time and build up slowly.

>2. Where do I start with weights?

Here the url for krista's site
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html

Finding exercises that you can do might be quite difficult. Here's one
article I found from google, Its a start, but it's not very good.
http://exercise.about.com/od/weightloss/a/obese_strength.htm
I found that lifting was very effective at helping me lose weight.

>3. Diet. I have been trying to eat *clean* for the last few weeks as
>in eggs (usually whole eggs), fish of any kind (love fish), poultry
>with or without skin, meats with or without fat, some fruit, little
>starches and lots of veggies and olive oil.
>Where can I improve this? Should I give up caffeine and my occasional
>can of diet pepsi? (About 3-4 per week...down from several per day.)
>I drank about 2 litres of water a day. Can I improve that?

That looks OK. Eat lots of protein. I personally wouldn't eat the skin
on the chicken, cos it's pointless calories.
Caffeine isn't a problem. Diet sodas are OK. Drink lots of water. If
nothing else the exercise running to the loo is good for you

>I find it tough to cook and eat 5-6 meals a day (busy single mom here)
>so I have been looking at protein powders at GNC to use for a couple
>of meals. I am not sure exactly how much protein I should have daily.
>400 grams a day seems like a lot if I go by the 1 gram per pound rule
>that I have read about here. The guy at GNC told me I can eat a LOT
>of protein with no ill effects and it will keep me from being hungry.

He's right. But you don't need to use GNC. Any cheap protein powder is
probably as good.

>I have the Body For Life book and am reading it. It has some good info
>in there but he seems to push a lot of starches and his own brand of
>supplements.

forget the supplements. Except that you should take a multi vitamin
every day.

>I am also currently looking at Krista's website but welcome all
>advise. Thanks in advance.

Take pictures now, and keep them. Also keep some big clothes. Both
will be a great incentive to keep going once you can see a difference.

Ray
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

me <nospam DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:

> Oh yeah...the doc gave me the greenlight on starting exercise but
> beyond that he wasn't a lot of help.

You weigh FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS and your doctor is giving you this kind of
hands-off shitty advice?

First thing I'd do is find another doctor.
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> me <nospam.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Oh yeah...the doc gave me the greenlight on starting exercise but
>> beyond that he wasn't a lot of help.
>
> You weigh FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS and your doctor is giving you this kind
> of hands-off shitty advice?
>
> First thing I'd do is find another doctor.

I was kind of thinking that myself.... :-/
--
-Larry
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

On Tue, 10 May 2005 14:55:54 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
<2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:

>The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>> me <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh yeah...the doc gave me the greenlight on starting exercise but
>>> beyond that he wasn't a lot of help.
>>
>> You weigh FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS and your doctor is giving you this kind
>> of hands-off shitty advice?
>>
>> First thing I'd do is find another doctor.
>
>I was kind of thinking that myself.... :-/

It is being done.

Here is the story......it is long.

Back in May 2004 I called my family doctor to make an appointment in
regards to getting my severe depression looked after. Turns out she
had retired as she was terminally ill. I had seen her the summer
before for my yearly physical and I knew she was ill but never thought
she was *that* ill.

I called a doctor I found taking patients on the Hamilton Ontario
website given by my former doctor's secratary. The website tells which
doctors are taking new patients and you simply choose one from the
list. The one I called was taking new patients and the earliest I
could get in was in mid-October. So I got some St. John's Wort and
decided to wait.

In October I saw the doc and it was only a 'Meet and Greet' type of
appt. He would not even hear about my depression until AFTER I went
for the tests he orderred for me. He also quite often stressed how
important making my appointments were because my visits to him
were his income. I realize the guy needs to make a living but his
attitude was a real turn off at that point but since I *needed* a
family doctor I decided to stay with him.

I went that day to the lab for the usual bloodtests and an EKG he
ordered. 6 pm that evening I got a phone call from the doctor who
told me my EKG results showed that I had a recent heart attack and if
I had any chest pains would I get to the Emergency room right away.
I said okay and he hung up. He never even gave me time to ask a
question so thinking back I put my finger on a possible 2 times where
I might have had the attack but the funny thing was in either case
there was no chest pains. I simply felt like my body was working
against me and I put it down to age and lack of exercise. (42 at that
time)

His secretary called a few days later telling me he wanted to see me
asap so I dropped everything went in that afternoon. When I got there
he asked ME what I was in there to see him for. Duh. After a couple
minutes talk and him showing me a picture of a heart in one of his
medical books he told me he would get me to a cardiologist as soon as
he could make an appt for me. I ask if I can do some exercise as long
as I am slow at it. He says okay. This gets even better now..........

A month goes by and I hear nothing from them so I call. No appt made
yet. I wait and by the third month I call. Nothing done yet. I ask
what is taking so long. No answer. Just told to wait and we will call
you. a week later they call me. A cardiologist will see me so the
appt is given to me. It is in February. In January I am called by my
family doctor telling me the cardiologist has reviewed my chart and
cannot see me. I do not meet the *criteria* for her study. I am too
fat. Yes I was told that. She only took certain types of heart
patients for her study. Apparently not the overweight ones.

I am pissed off but was told they will find a cardiologist for me.
By April I phoned to ask what in the hell was going on. I am really
pissed off by this and let the secratary know it. She tells me they
were having a hard time finding me a cardiologist because I am so
overweight. No cardiologist in Hamilton Ontario apparently wants a fat
patient with heart problems. I said I was willing to do whatever it
took to get my weight down but I would like to know what is going on
with my heart as anyone would. I still have no idea what is wrong and
have had some chest twinges when just sitting reading. No pain but
it does feel like pressure from within and only lasts a few seconds.
It is also a little difficult to breath when this occurs but it passes
within seconds. Things have improved since I began taking an aspirin
daily and changed my diet. I have been watching my saturated fat
intake but even that needs improving.

Anyway, a couple days after I was told by the doctor's secretary I was
too fat to be seen by *any* cardiologist in Hamilton, I called to
tell them I would not be coming back to see him. I am presently
looking for a new family doctor but with the extreme shortage of
doctors taking new patients here in Hamilton Ontario it might be a
little while before I get one. In the meantime I can still go to the
ER if I need to and walk in clinics are everywhere here for anything
minor.

So you see.....I am getting a new doctor and know you know why.
J.
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

me wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 14:55:54 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
> <2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:
>
>> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>>> me <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh yeah...the doc gave me the greenlight on starting exercise but
>>>> beyond that he wasn't a lot of help.
>>>
>>> You weigh FOUR HUNDRED POUNDS and your doctor is giving you this
>>> kind of hands-off shitty advice?
>>>
>>> First thing I'd do is find another doctor.
>>
>> I was kind of thinking that myself.... :-/
>
> It is being done.
>
> Here is the story......it is long.
>
> Back in May 2004 I called my family doctor to make an appointment in
> regards to getting my severe depression looked after. Turns out she
> had retired as she was terminally ill. I had seen her the summer
> before for my yearly physical and I knew she was ill but never thought
> she was *that* ill.
>
> I called a doctor I found taking patients on the Hamilton Ontario
> website given by my former doctor's secratary. The website tells which
> doctors are taking new patients and you simply choose one from the
> list. The one I called was taking new patients and the earliest I
> could get in was in mid-October. So I got some St. John's Wort and
> decided to wait.
>
> In October I saw the doc and it was only a 'Meet and Greet' type of
> appt. He would not even hear about my depression until AFTER I went
> for the tests he orderred for me. He also quite often stressed how
> important making my appointments were because my visits to him
> were his income. I realize the guy needs to make a living but his
> attitude was a real turn off at that point but since I *needed* a
> family doctor I decided to stay with him.
>
> I went that day to the lab for the usual bloodtests and an EKG he
> ordered. 6 pm that evening I got a phone call from the doctor who
> told me my EKG results showed that I had a recent heart attack and if
> I had any chest pains would I get to the Emergency room right away.
> I said okay and he hung up. He never even gave me time to ask a
> question so thinking back I put my finger on a possible 2 times where
> I might have had the attack but the funny thing was in either case
> there was no chest pains. I simply felt like my body was working
> against me and I put it down to age and lack of exercise. (42 at that
> time)
>
> His secretary called a few days later telling me he wanted to see me
> asap so I dropped everything went in that afternoon. When I got there
> he asked ME what I was in there to see him for. Duh. After a couple
> minutes talk and him showing me a picture of a heart in one of his
> medical books he told me he would get me to a cardiologist as soon as
> he could make an appt for me. I ask if I can do some exercise as long
> as I am slow at it. He says okay. This gets even better now..........
>
> A month goes by and I hear nothing from them so I call. No appt made
> yet. I wait and by the third month I call. Nothing done yet. I ask
> what is taking so long. No answer. Just told to wait and we will call
> you. a week later they call me. A cardiologist will see me so the
> appt is given to me. It is in February. In January I am called by my
> family doctor telling me the cardiologist has reviewed my chart and
> cannot see me. I do not meet the *criteria* for her study. I am too
> fat. Yes I was told that. She only took certain types of heart
> patients for her study. Apparently not the overweight ones.
>
> I am pissed off but was told they will find a cardiologist for me.
> By April I phoned to ask what in the hell was going on. I am really
> pissed off by this and let the secratary know it. She tells me they
> were having a hard time finding me a cardiologist because I am so
> overweight. No cardiologist in Hamilton Ontario apparently wants a fat
> patient with heart problems. I said I was willing to do whatever it
> took to get my weight down but I would like to know what is going on
> with my heart as anyone would. I still have no idea what is wrong and
> have had some chest twinges when just sitting reading. No pain but
> it does feel like pressure from within and only lasts a few seconds.
> It is also a little difficult to breath when this occurs but it passes
> within seconds. Things have improved since I began taking an aspirin
> daily and changed my diet. I have been watching my saturated fat
> intake but even that needs improving.
>
> Anyway, a couple days after I was told by the doctor's secretary I was
> too fat to be seen by *any* cardiologist in Hamilton, I called to
> tell them I would not be coming back to see him. I am presently
> looking for a new family doctor but with the extreme shortage of
> doctors taking new patients here in Hamilton Ontario it might be a
> little while before I get one. In the meantime I can still go to the
> ER if I need to and walk in clinics are everywhere here for anything
> minor.
>
> So you see.....I am getting a new doctor and know you know why.
> J.

That's not a long story. That's an autobiography!

Good girl. Keep at it and you'll find a doctor that understands fitness and
nutrition. They are out there, but they aren't the norm. With your
existing heart condition, I'd want to be under a doctor's care before going
nuts with the workouts. Find one that knows his stuff. Follow what he
says.
--
-Larry
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:47:34 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
<2larry2 DeleteThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:





>That's not a long story. That's an autobiography!

Sorry. I tried to whittle it down to the reader's digest version.


>Good girl. Keep at it and you'll find a doctor that understands fitness and
>nutrition. They are out there, but they aren't the norm. With your
>existing heart condition, I'd want to be under a doctor's care before going
>nuts with the workouts. Find one that knows his stuff. Follow what he
>says.

I will do my best.
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

On Tue, 10 May 2005 20:40:49 GMT, ray miller
<bynews.TakeThisOut@rmns.co.python.uk> wrote:


>First off have you tried something like weight watchers. You should be
>able to lose fairly easily at your weight. You don't need to
>complicate things yet. There is a support group on usenet - take a
>look.

Been there and done that. Hated it. Hated the meetings.
It was all too touchy feely flowery for me.



> Also look on the net for exercises for people who are
>obese.

Now there is an idea I never thought of.



> Lifting weights may not be a great idea for you until you've
>lost some weight. Your joints are already stressed, lifting even more
>weight may leave you with injuries.

I was planning on starting off with 5 pound freeweights and work my
way up slowly. I can use my son's weightbench in our basement. He has
everything I need down there.



>Finding exercises that you can do might be quite difficult. Here's one
>article I found from google, Its a start, but it's not very good.
>http://exercise.about.com/od/weightloss/a/obese_strength.htm
>I found that lifting was very effective at helping me lose weight.

Thanks. I will read it.


>>That looks OK. Eat lots of protein. I personally wouldn't eat the skin
>on the chicken, cos it's pointless calories.

Ok...ditch the skin.



>Caffeine isn't a problem. Diet sodas are OK. Drink lots of water. If
>nothing else the exercise running to the loo is good for you

I have to go up the stairs to get there too.


>He's right. But you don't need to use GNC. Any cheap protein powder is
>probably as good.

I've been looking for a protein powder with more then 25 grams per
serving and very little carbs. I find the higher the protein, the less
hungry I feel. The ones in the regular stores I've all checked so I
thought I would pop into a GNC and have a look to see what could be
found. I never bought any but I know the one I want is there if I want
it.

>forget the supplements. Except that you should take a multi vitamin
>every day.

I take a multivitamin, calcium, an aspirin daily and Triflex for my
arthritis.


>Take pictures now, and keep them.

I have some.



> Also keep some big clothes.

I'm wearing them right now but I will keep a pair of pants.
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

On Tue, 10 May 2005 10:57:03 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
<2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:
>1.)
>It will take years and years, so be patient and think long term.
>
>I have always been athletic. But during the four years my marriage was
>falling apart, I stopped all activity and just ate. I ended up at 260 at 5'
>10". That was 3 1/2 years ago. I'm now 185. It took me two years to get
>to where I was comfortable. It will take you longer. But it can be done.
>Just think long term.

While I agree it will take time for you to reach your ideal weight and
that you should be doing this "for life" and not consider it as
something temporary (IOW expecting you'll get back to the diet/life
style you were living) "year and years" may sound a bit discouraging
at the beginning (IMHO).

So, let me just tell you that you WILL be noticing changes from month
to month and these changes alone will be all the positive drive you
need to keep on

And after a while clean diet and regular exercise will just become
habitual to you, and therefore much easier and automatic.

If you really, really want it and you're willing to do what it takes,
make no mistake - you will succeed.


Regards,
Goran Tomas

------------------
"The only stupid question is the one which is never asked. For
enlightenment has been lost."
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

Goran Tomas wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 10:57:03 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
> <2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:
>> 1.)
>> It will take years and years, so be patient and think long term.
>>
>> I have always been athletic. But during the four years my marriage
>> was falling apart, I stopped all activity and just ate. I ended up
>> at 260 at 5' 10". That was 3 1/2 years ago. I'm now 185. It took
>> me two years to get to where I was comfortable. It will take you
>> longer. But it can be done. Just think long term.
>
> While I agree it will take time for you to reach your ideal weight and
> that you should be doing this "for life" and not consider it as
> something temporary (IOW expecting you'll get back to the diet/life
> style you were living) "year and years" may sound a bit discouraging
> at the beginning (IMHO).

Well, let's see. Say she wants to be 150 lbs. That means she's got to drop
250 lbs. At 75 lbs per year of non-stop weight loss, that's 3.3 years.
Provided she doesn't have a relapse in those 3.3 years. I don't think 3.3
years is even realistic. That would require a non-stop average caloric
deficit of 5,000+ per week, non stop for 171 weeks.

I'm not cutting her down or trying to discourage her. But, I think a sober
assessment of what to expect is in order. I see more people give up because
they don't look like the Blowflex people in six weeks. Fact is, it took
years and years for her to reach 400 lbs. It will take years and years to
get the weight off.

Sorry if that fact isn't as "feel good" as you'd like. But...it is the
truth. Now, she can decide to pursue it or not. But at least she will know
what she's in for. I hope she makes it. I like her based on her guts to
post here. She could be posting in Lady Veteran's Fat Justification ng, but
she's here instead.

<snip>

> Regards,
> Goran Tomas

--
-Larry
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:24:11 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
<2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:



>Sorry if that fact isn't as "feel good" as you'd like. But...it is the
>truth. Now, she can decide to pursue it or not. But at least she will know
>what she's in for. I hope she makes it.

I hope I do too and I appreciate your honesty Larry. I appreciate
everyone's honesty who answered my post. I *know* it will take me
years and a LOT of hard work to get this weight off. I am not going
into this blindly. I am doing the research and I have to do the work
involved. I *know* that.

I will answer the other posts later. Too many ppl here now to read or
write anything without being distracted.
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

Larry Hodges <2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:

> Goran Tomas wrote:

> > While I agree it will take time for you to reach your ideal weight and
> > that you should be doing this "for life" and not consider it as
> > something temporary (IOW expecting you'll get back to the diet/life
> > style you were living) "year and years" may sound a bit discouraging
> > at the beginning (IMHO).
>
> Well, let's see. Say she wants to be 150 lbs. That means she's got to drop
> 250 lbs. At 75 lbs per year of non-stop weight loss, that's 3.3 years.
> Provided she doesn't have a relapse in those 3.3 years. I don't think 3.3
> years is even realistic. That would require a non-stop average caloric
> deficit of 5,000+ per week, non stop for 171 weeks.

I appreciate the hard numbers and your no-nonsense perspective. I do
question whether she should expect to limit her weight loss to the
proverbial 1-1.5 lbs per week. At 400 lbs, isn't it reasonable to expect
that her early weight loss could be much faster without any major danger
to her muscle mass (as long as she does a bit of weight training)?
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

me wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:24:11 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
> <2larry2.RemoveThis@2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> Sorry if that fact isn't as "feel good" as you'd like. But...it is
>> the truth. Now, she can decide to pursue it or not. But at least
>> she will know what she's in for. I hope she makes it.
>
> I hope I do too and I appreciate your honesty Larry. I appreciate
> everyone's honesty who answered my post. I *know* it will take me
> years and a LOT of hard work to get this weight off. I am not going
> into this blindly. I am doing the research and I have to do the work
> involved. I *know* that.
>
> I will answer the other posts later. Too many ppl here now to read or
> write anything without being distracted.


MFW is always brutally honest...but very helpful. Touchy / feely is in the
next ng over.

I saw somebody recommend fitday.com to you. I highly recommend it. The
only way you will make this work is to control your diet. I've come to the
conclusion that diet is 75% and exercise is 25%.

There's a really heavy woman at my gym. I like her and make it a point to
always chat with her. She's there every day doing an hour of cardio. In 3
years, she hasn't lost a pound. That's because she comes in, does her
cardio, burns her 500 calories doing it, then goes home and eats an
additional 500 cal to make up for it.

IOW, cardio, from a weight loss perspective, is simply a tool to create a
caloric deficit. If you add back in the calories you've burned doing it,
you've negated the weight loss benefit. Fitday will help you get a handle
on what you consume.

I didn't notice anybody point this out, but 3,500 calories = 1 lb of fat.
That applies to going or coming. If you can figure out what your caloric
maintenance is (your BMR), then cut 500 cal per day, you'd lose 1 lb in a
week. It's just math. If you eat an excess of 3,500 cal in a week, you'll
gain 1 lb.

Finding your BMR is always a guess. The scale will tell you if you guessed
correctly or not on a week to week basis. But to start, go here:

http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

exrx.net has a ton of useful stuff. It's a site you should look through.
The above calculator allows you to account for every hour in your day and I
think hits fairly close. The BMR that Fitday calculates is too high IMO. I
have my Lifestyle Level at Fitday set to bedridden, then add activities.

Another useful site is the USDA's site:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Hope you'll stick around and keep us updated as to your progress.
--
-Larry
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat 

Preacher wrote:
> Larry Hodges <2larry2 RemoveThis @2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote:
>
>> Goran Tomas wrote:
>
>>> While I agree it will take time for you to reach your ideal weight
>>> and that you should be doing this "for life" and not consider it as
>>> something temporary (IOW expecting you'll get back to the diet/life
>>> style you were living) "year and years" may sound a bit discouraging
>>> at the beginning (IMHO).
>>
>> Well, let's see. Say she wants to be 150 lbs. That means she's got
>> to drop 250 lbs. At 75 lbs per year of non-stop weight loss, that's
>> 3.3 years. Provided she doesn't have a relapse in those 3.3 years.
>> I don't think 3.3 years is even realistic. That would require a
>> non-stop average caloric deficit of 5,000+ per week, non stop for
>> 171 weeks.
>
> I appreciate the hard numbers and your no-nonsense perspective. I do
> question whether she should expect to limit her weight loss to the
> proverbial 1-1.5 lbs per week. At 400 lbs, isn't it reasonable to
> expect that her early weight loss could be much faster without any
> major danger to her muscle mass (as long as she does a bit of weight
> training)?

Sure. But that will slow after...what, six months? And a lot of that
initial loss will be water, not fat. Dally's one to comment on this, as she
had a hell of a time dropping weight in the latter period of her loss.

But aside from the above, we can agree that 3,500 cal = 1 lb of fat. So, 2
lbs per week require a 6,000 deficit. That's almost 1,000 per day. I'm no
expert on this, but from what I've read from Lyle and others, you run the
risk of messing up your metabolism running a deficit much higher than that.
That's why the binge dieters get so screwed up. They've trashed their
metabolism.

Then there's the issue with her heart condition. She really needs to be
under the care of a doctor for this kind of weight loss, and monitored
regularly. Basically, she needs to be willing to dedicate the next 3+ years
of her life to this goal and set aside all the others. I hope she has the
gumption to make it. At least she now knows what she's in for. I'd rather
have her be please with her progress at the end of one year instead of
discouraged because she isn't at 200 lbs by then.
--
-Larry
 >> Stay informed about: Help me lose the fat