HIIT on the Precor Elliptical?

On 2005-01-21, Lordy <spam_box RemoveThis @gmx.net> wrote:
> "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in news:35cplcF4kkkr8U1
> @individual.net:
>
>>|| Out of interest -
>>|| Why is your newreader configured to butcher the standard quoting on
>>|| other posts?
>>||
>>|| Lordy
>>
>> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
> '>' is replaced with '|' for all previous posts cited in the thread.
>
> So you end up with
> '||||||||l1'
> instead of
> '>>>>>>>>l1'
>
> Which looks really bad when viewed with proportional fonts.

So fix your font settings (-;

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

Deb wrote:
> Lurker wrote:> > > >
>
>>If you shorten the overall time for the program don't the intervals
>>shorten as well? You could do two 22 minute programs with 1 minute
>>intervals instead of 1 45 minutes with two minute intervals, no?
>
>
> I haven't tested that but will give it a shot.
>
>
>>And I thought that 23 minutes of HIIT was the majuk number.
>
>
> I hadn't done any research on it until I was already at the 45 minute
> mark. Only two weeks ago I decided to switch from 45 minutes of
> straight work at a single resistance to the interval program. I'm
> trying to lose weight and I'm not sure 23 minutes would be enough for
> me.
>
I know that the Precor EFX some number number number at the gym where I
train operate this way.

If I do a 30' interval program the intervals are shorter then a 45' one.
Same number of intervals though. Let us know what you find out.

Lurker

--
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

"elzinator" <elzinator.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1106318217.919693.5550
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> Deb wrote:
>> It's me again. I've been doing the "interval" program on the Precor
>> at the gym. Problem is, the machine is pre-set for two minutes low,
>> two minutes high intensity. There is no way to change that. All I
>> can change is the resistance level for the high and low.
>>
>> So, I've been doing 45 minutes on this thing, with 4 as the low and 7
>> as the high. HR is about 145 on the low end and 160 at the high
>> end...and I'm struggling in the second minute of the high intervals.
>
> Read below.
> BTW, you're supposed to be 'struggling' with intervals.
>
>> Question is - aren't intervals supposed to be two different lengths?
>> Like 30 seconds on the low, just enough to recover, and then 90
>> seconds full out max pain effort?
> .......
> Variables and Guidelines for Interval Training
> By Elzi Volk
>
> Depending on your present athletic conditioning, there are different
> factors you must consider when participating in an interval-training
> program. Elzi details the basics.
>
> A popular form of endurance training used for elite athletes is
> interval training. However, this approach can be used in almost any
> type of sport or exercise activity. Interval training entails
> alternating short moderate periods of intense work with short to
> moderate periods of less intense work. The intervals may be equal and
> vary from several seconds to several minutes.
>
> Repetitive bouts at a fast pace with brief periods of rest will develop
> the aerobic system and can be performed in a shorter amount of time.
> Although a single continuous session of exercise can deliver the same
> aerobic benefits, many find that continuous endurance exercise is
> boring. Intervals offer an alternative by intermittently changing the
> pace and thus similar aerobic and anaerobic benefits can be achieved in
> shorter time.
>
> Depending on goals, interval training can be used for sports-specific
> training or in a fat-loss program. In fact, several studies have
> demonstrated that interval training results in a relative greater
> decrease in body fat compared to continuous moderate-intensity aerobic
> exercise.
>
> Many sports participants (swimmers, cyclists, runners) include
> intermittent high-intensity bouts of exercise in their training and
> show significant improvements in performance over those who use only
> long, low-intensity training bouts. The form of the activity should be
> selected to fit the specific sport or exercise program by manipulating
> the variables involved:
>
> · Rate and distance of the high-intensity intervals.
> · Number of repetitions and sets during each session.
> · Duration of the low-intensity or recovery intervals.
> · Type of activity during the recovery intervals.
> · Frequency of interval sessions per week.
>
> These variables must be adjusted for each individual or athlete and are
> addressed below, followed by guidelines for various levels of
> conditioning.
>
> 1. Determine a sufficient high-intensity rate. The most common method
> is by monitoring the heart pulse rate. Each person should know what
> their training pulse rate is based on their maximum heart rate (HRm).
> This rate varies widely depending on age, general conditioning and
> health risks. Ask your doctor or a qualified personal trainer for
> information on how to determine this rate.
>
> 2. Duration of work interval. The distance or time of the work
> intervals will depend on the individual. For example, sprinters,
> football and soccer players may run short intervals (30-200 meters). On
> the contrary, the long-distance runner may run anywhere from 200-1500
> plus meter intervals. As well, a beginner with low functional capacity
> should start with a one- to two-minute interval.
>
> 3. Repetitions and sets. Intervals can be repeated any number of times
> depending on the individual's training goals and response. Generally,
> the shorter and more intense the intervals, the greater the number of
> repetitions and sets that should be performed. Those who have higher
> conditioning and seeking increased endurance and speed should perform
> higher-intensity and longer-duration interval training.
>
> 4. Recovery intervals. The duration of the recovery interval depends
> greatly on the individual. Generally, the higher the work interval
> intensity, the lighter or less intense the recovery interval.
> Additionally, the shorter the interval, the longer the rest interval
> relatively speaking. That is, for a 10-second max effort, you might
> rest 20 times as long, or 200 seconds; for a 1-minute max effort, you
> might rest 1.5 times as long or 1.5 minutes. As the individual becomes
> more conditioned, he or she will be able to increase the intensity of
> the work interval or decrease the duration of the recovery interval.
> Monitoring the pulse rate can help determine when the person is
> recovered and ready to start the next high-intensity interval.
>
> 5. Type of activity. Intervals can be performed on nearly any type of
> equipment or outdoors. Low-impact activities such as the stair climber,
> swimming or cycling may be preferable for those individuals who carry
> extra bodyweight. Other activities include sprinting with jogging or
> brisk walking for recovery intervals.
>
> 6. Frequency of intervals. The frequency of interval training will
> depend on the individual's goals. An athlete training for swimming
> competition may interval train nearly five to seven days per week. For
> general conditioning, two to three times per week appears to be
> adequate.
>
> General conditioning (for general conditioning or those with low
> cardiovascular fitness)
>
> · High-intensity work intervals: start with 60-70% of maximum heart
> rate (HRm), increasing to 75-85% as fitness improves. The work
> intervals may last 2-3 minutes.
> · Recovery intervals: 50-60% HRm. Duration should be at least equal to
> the work intervals, or when pulse reaches the suggested heart rate.
> · Repeat 5-10 times or a total workout of 15-25 minutes.
>
> Intermediate
>
> · High-intensity work intervals: 85-95% HRm; time varies depending on
> goals, ranging from 60 seconds to 10 minutes.
> · Recovery intervals: 75-85% HRm, varies the same as above.
> · The shorter and more intense the interval, the greater number of
> repetitions and sets. The longer the interval in time and distance, the
> number of repetitions and sets should be reduced.
>
> Advanced (anaerobic training)
>
> · High-intensity work intervals: 85 to greater than 100% functional
> capacity; duration is between 30 seconds and 4 minutes.
> · Recovery intervals: 60-90 seconds, varies as above.
> · Blood lactate responses are higher as is risk of musculoskeletal
> injury because of high velocities and forces. A thorough warm-up is
> advised.
>
> (retrieved from archived web page; otherwise access is limited to
> subscription)
>

Hmmm... you're recommending longer work intervals, in general, and
relatively much longer rest intervals than the 20sec/10sec protocol one of
the studies used. Is there a particular reason for that?

Hugh


--
Run like hell and let the clowns deal with the bull.
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

"Deb" <MagicTentacle DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:1106320901.233610.293680
@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I hadn't done any research on it until I was already at the 45 minute
> mark. Only two weeks ago I decided to switch from 45 minutes of
> straight work at a single resistance to the interval program. I'm
> trying to lose weight and I'm not sure 23 minutes would be enough for
> me.

If you do it properly .. it will.

--
Lordy
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

"Lordy" <spam_box.RemoveThis@gmx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns95E69C384EDClordybigfootcom@130.133.1.4...
> "Deb" <MagicTentacle.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in news:1106320901.233610.293680
> @c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > I hadn't done any research on it until I was already at the 45 minute
> > mark. Only two weeks ago I decided to switch from 45 minutes of
> > straight work at a single resistance to the interval program. I'm
> > trying to lose weight and I'm not sure 23 minutes would be enough for
> > me.
>
> If you do it properly .. it will.
>
> --
> Lordy

word

10 minutes can work way better than 45 minutes if your 10 minutes is real
work and not WAMC

also, even the "venerable" cooper has revised his previous 20 minute recc.
and now admits you can get good cardio benefit (as an adjunct to weight
loss) with less than 20 min's

even 10

whit
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

On 2005-01-21, elzinator <elzinator.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It increases resting metabolic rate more than typical aerobic workouts
> becuase interval training recruits both metabolic pathways: aerobic and
> anaerobic.

"typical aerobic workouts", especially more challenging ones (like cardio
box classes, spinning classes, or any workout where you get drenched in
sweat), do recruit "both metabolic pathways". There's got to be more to
it than that.

> Yeah, the Tremblay study is seminal in demonstration of HIIT efficacy.

Meaning that no-one ever cites anything besides that ?

There are a bunch of concerns I have with that, the main one is that they
used a stationary bike. Which is fine if you're only going to make inferences
about training on a stationary bike, otherwise it's problematic (at least
until someone replicates the study *and* works out the mechanism behind the
results) If they were to attempt the same study with running, my bet is that
the "ET" subjects would get substantially leaner and fitter, and the "HIIT"
subjects would get injured.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

Donovan Rebbechi <abuse.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:slrncv3bql.26t.abuse@panix2.panix.com:

> On 2005-01-21, elzinator <elzinator.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It increases resting metabolic rate more than typical aerobic workouts
>> becuase interval training recruits both metabolic pathways: aerobic and
>> anaerobic.
>
> "typical aerobic workouts", especially more challenging ones (like cardio
> box classes, spinning classes, or any workout where you get drenched in
> sweat), do recruit "both metabolic pathways". There's got to be more to
> it than that.
>

See now we're in the semantic domain. "Typical workouts" in the context up
until your post - meant x minutes steay state cardio on a typical gym
cardio machine. (x >= 20)

You're challenging typical workouts is arguably an oxymoron but obviously
more akin to a real sport / HIIT (whichever way you want to look at it).

Most challenging classes involve change of pace etc so I think its a bit of
a straw man argument IMHO.

--
Lordy
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

On 2005-01-21, Deb <MagicTentacle.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lurker wrote:> > > >
>> If you shorten the overall time for the program don't the intervals
>> shorten as well? You could do two 22 minute programs with 1 minute
>> intervals instead of 1 45 minutes with two minute intervals, no?
>
> I haven't tested that but will give it a shot.
>
>>
>> And I thought that 23 minutes of HIIT was the majuk number.
>
> I hadn't done any research on it until I was already at the 45 minute
> mark. Only two weeks ago I decided to switch from 45 minutes of
> straight work at a single resistance to the interval program. I'm
> trying to lose weight and I'm not sure 23 minutes would be enough for
> me.

If you've got 45 minutes to spend, then you could do

12 minutes warmup
23 min intervals
10 minutes cooldown

Total time: 45 minutes

The warmup should be at a reasonable intensity, say about 80% MHR. If you
want the extra volume to count for something, the intensity has to be
reasonable, so that you're not just doing junk volume for the sake of it.
Cooldown should start on a very easy setting and then after gasping for air for
a minute or two, you should be able to pick it back up to the workload you used
in the warmup.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

On 2005-01-21, Deb <MagicTentacle.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> tabber wrote:>
>>
>> Also, if you're going all out for 90 sec you're not really going all
>> out. In your best condition you'll probably only be able to go all
> out
>> for only around 30-40 sec.
>
> Good to know....I'll play with the routine and see what I can do
> better.

30-40 sec for reps still isn't all out. But don't worry, it doesn't need
to be all-out.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

Donovan Rebbechi <abuse RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in
news:slrncv3eqh.efk.abuse@panix2.panix.com:

> If you've got 45 minutes to spend, then you could do
>
> 12 minutes warmup
> 23 min intervals
> 10 minutes cooldown
>
> Total time: 45 minutes

Not stalking you Donovan honest ! But I often find shower time can be
included in cooldown time! I figure as long as I'm on my feet and moving
around "its all good". Am I doing something bad ???
--
Lordy
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

On 2005-01-22, Lordy <spam_box.TakeThisOut@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <abuse.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in
> news:slrncv3bql.26t.abuse@panix2.panix.com:
>
>> On 2005-01-21, elzinator <elzinator.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It increases resting metabolic rate more than typical aerobic workouts
>>> becuase interval training recruits both metabolic pathways: aerobic and
>>> anaerobic.
>>
>> "typical aerobic workouts", especially more challenging ones (like cardio
>> box classes, spinning classes, or any workout where you get drenched in
>> sweat), do recruit "both metabolic pathways". There's got to be more to
>> it than that.
>
> See now we're in the semantic domain. "Typical workouts" in the context up
> until your post - meant x minutes steay state cardio on a typical gym
> cardio machine. (x >= 20)

I don't think attending group classes is at all atypical. I've seen those cardio
box classes get pretty crowded. As for the spinning classes, at my gym a lot
of the location require you to sign up in advance because they're always full.

But that's beside the point, because it's impossible to burn a substantial
amount of calories without making substantial use of "both metabolic pathways".
Most people (basically everyone besides endurance weenies) simply won't get the
ergometer to turn over without pushing the pace up around AT, and when you get
near AT, you are making substantial use of anaerobic metabolism.

> Most challenging classes involve change of pace etc so I think its a bit of
> a straw man argument IMHO.

Except that for the most part, MFWers have historically lumped all aerobics classes
together with "typical workouts", and not seriously looked at them as a possible form
of intermittent training.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

On 2005-01-22, Lordy <spam_box DeleteThis @gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi <abuse DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in
> news:slrncv3eqh.efk.abuse@panix2.panix.com:
>
>> If you've got 45 minutes to spend, then you could do
>>
>> 12 minutes warmup
>> 23 min intervals
>> 10 minutes cooldown
>>
>> Total time: 45 minutes
>
> Not stalking you Donovan honest ! But I often find shower time can be
> included in cooldown time! I figure as long as I'm on my feet and moving
> around "its all good". Am I doing something bad ???

Speaking for myself, I don't burn many calories in the shower. But I can't
speak for you because I don't know what you're doing in there.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical? 

Donovan Rebbechi <abuse DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in
news:slrncv3fk8.efk.abuse@panix2.panix.com:

>
> Except that for the most part, MFWers have historically lumped all
> aerobics classes together with "typical workouts", and not seriously
> looked at them as a possible form of intermittent training.
>
> Cheers,

Perhaps, but I think the thread until now was concered with stead state
"cardio" on a gym machine vs HIIT. Any sport, or kind of class that
encourages pace change , is more akin to HIIT. (Perhaps even better because
of the psycological aspect of remotely enjoying one self?) So as far as OP
is concerned its a moot point?

--
Lordy
 >> Stay informed about: HIIT on the Precor Elliptical?