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Next: Weights: Message recieved Curt.
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External
Since: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:51 pm
Post subject: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program
Archived from groups: misc>fitness>weights (more info?)
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Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b). I've
been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it. The
fellas in the gym say all the time my shoulders are expanding. Of
course, this is a contrast from being 147 to 160. That's what they were
seeing. I took off 7 days, and lost the swell, and then they were quick
to point that out.
But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.
Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
like a mofo:
Mon: Chest & Back
Tue: Arms and Shoulders
Wed: Legs
Thurs: Chest & Back
Fri: Arms & Shoulders
Sat: Legs
Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.
I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
SEAL |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 250
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
news:gV2ah.6454$yf7.4121@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b).
That title should be enough to give you douchechills.
I've
> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it. The
> fellas in the gym say all the time my shoulders are expanding. Of
> course, this is a contrast from being 147 to 160. That's what they were
> seeing. I took off 7 days, and lost the swell, and then they were quick
> to point that out.
The swell?
Don't ask, don't tell.
>
> But before all of this, I wanted to try out Anthony Ellis' program, but
> it cost so much that I said I'll get it at the end of the year. I just
> ordered it a couple of days ago; it should be coming soon. However, the
> first 30 pages of his book are online in his Inner Circle site.
And you just can't wait to start making those scary gains!
>
> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
>
> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
> like a mofo:
> Mon: Chest & Back
> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
> Wed: Legs
> Thurs: Chest & Back
> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
> Sat: Legs
> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
>
> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.
Really? If you get a chance to see him speaking in person, don't pass it up.
>
> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
I think it's another program that probably fits into the broad spectrum of
workable programs. To paraphrase Lyle, pretty much any non-retarded weight
training program will give results. There is no perfect program and the
marketing gurus of fitness books have no special answers.
> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
>
> SEAL
Frequency and intensity are two variables you can adjust based on your
ability to recover, other physical activity you're engaging in and the
duration of a particular program. Get plenty of sleep and don't get into
chronic overtraining. DAGS on overtraining and watch for the symptoms. |
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 am
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2006-11-25 SEAL napisał(a):
> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b). I've
> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it.
As long as it's working, do not change it.
[...]
> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
As long as your current routine is working, do not improve it. It
ain't broke, doan fix it. But 3 days a week full body workouts aren't
bad choice.
> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
> like a mofo:
>
> Mon: Chest & Back
> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
> Wed: Legs
> Thurs: Chest & Back
> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
> Sat: Legs
> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
Good routine. IMHO better than 3 days a week full body, at least for
bodybuilding purposes. If you want something in between, do push-pull
or upper-lower split. Works well too.
> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.
Frequency in general works better for me. I tried what Mike Mentzer
preached and I got no results besides injury. And he's dead. All
reasons to doubt that all this high intensity stuff is actually working
well.
> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
protein.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Andrzej Rosa wrote:
> Dnia 2006-11-25 SEAL napisał(a):
>> Well, I finally bought the Anthony Ellis program (a). Previous to this,
>> my program was from the book, Body Sculpting Bible for Men (b). I've
>> been using (b) for a long time, and I got great results from it.
>
> As long as it's working, do not change it.
Good point.
> [...]
>> Anthony Ellis says that to bulk up:
>> 1. Lift so heavy that you fail between 4 and 8 reps.
>> 2. Lift only 3 days per week (assumes full body split).
>
> As long as your current routine is working, do not improve it. It
> ain't broke, doan fix it. But 3 days a week full body workouts aren't
> bad choice.
I think Ellis is proposing to do only the Mon, Tue, Wed part of my
current routine.
>> The Body Sculpting Bible's routine is 6 days per week also lift heavy
>> like a mofo:
>>
>> Mon: Chest & Back
>> Tue: Arms and Shoulders
>> Wed: Legs
>> Thurs: Chest & Back
>> Fri: Arms & Shoulders
>> Sat: Legs
>> Sun: Rest and eat whatever you want.
>
> Good routine. IMHO better than 3 days a week full body, at least for
> bodybuilding purposes. If you want something in between, do push-pull
> or upper-lower split. Works well too.
>
>> With the (b), I got great results. Anthony Ellis says go to the gym
>> half as much. I'm not looking for the easy way out, I want results. Is
>> this right? Mike Mentzer preaches the same thing.
>
> Frequency in general works better for me. I tried what Mike Mentzer
> preached and I got no results besides injury. And he's dead. All
> reasons to doubt that all this high intensity stuff is actually working
> well.
Yeah, and he croaked at 50 too.
>> I'm almost thinking the Anthony Ellis book is bogus. What do you think?
>> Do you lift heavy 6 or 3 days per week?
>
> It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
> and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
> some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
> important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
> protein.
I do hit overtraining sometimes, and I noticed it when I can't even grip
the weight to do dumbbell rows. My fist just won't close. But when I
get that I either do something else, or walk out of the gym and come
back later.
Thanks for the good advice. >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:59 am
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2006-11-26 SEAL napisał(a):
> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>> It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
>> and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
>> some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
>> important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
>> protein.
>
> I do hit overtraining sometimes, and I noticed it when I can't even grip
> the weight to do dumbbell rows. My fist just won't close. But when I
> get that I either do something else, or walk out of the gym and come
> back later.
The way you describe it, it doesn't look like overtraining. It rather
looks like your grip is failing you on your back day. Common thing,
which should improve over time.
Overtraining is when training stimulus you inflict upon yourself is
greater then your recovery ability for a long time. Let's say, several
months, or so. It looks like you train hard, but you constantly become
more tired, less focused, less enthusiastic with your lifting, your
performance goes down, you feel depressed, irritable, you sleep badly
and so on.
If it happens, lighten your work outs or stay away from gym for a
while. You should be able to recover then, and make new progress.
But it must take long time to really kick in. Short term
"overtraining", like several weeks, is called overreaching and isn't
totally useless. You exceed your recovery ability, but for a short
time only, so once you back off you should experience good progress.
Planned overreaching is often a part of many training programs. For a
beginner playing around the edge is probably not much useful, so do not
go totally crazy with your workouts.
Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's simplification,
but there is something to it.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:11 am
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dnia 2006-11-26 ATP* napisał(a):
>
> "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote in message
> news:jw7ah.9796$6t.9625@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>> The swell?
>>
>> Also known as the pump. I think it's technically called "hypertrophy".
>> After 7 days of not lifting but the remote control, I lost the pump,
>> the swell, hypertrophy, and the definition.
>
> Hypertrophy is muscle growth. You don't lose a significant amount of
> hypertrophy in 7 days. You might have gained a few pounds of fat and lost
> definition with that crazy diet you're on. Pump is something else and quite
> temporary. Pump is for the pretty boys doing "curls for the girls" in the
> power cage. The "body sculpting" crowd.
I think he was right when he described it as simply a swell. At
least my muscles do look bigger for a day or more ofter I work them
out. I always thought that they are actually swollen, due to trauma of
training, but whatever it is, it's neither pump nor hypertrophy.
Regarding pump being useful only for "body sculpting crowd" I remember
reading about powerlifters doing high rep triceps work, quite like
bodybuilders. Training triceps with bad elbows becomes difficult and
this pump-like approach made it possible. Also, something good was
supposed to happen with recovery.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 514
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Andrzej Rosa" <bakters.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ekbaff$ros$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Dnia 2006-11-26 SEAL napisał(a):
>> Andrzej Rosa wrote:
>>> It's hard to lift heavy 6 days a week. Watch for signs of overtraining
>>> and ease up from time to time. Do not always push yourself hard, make
>>> some easy work outs too. Eat a lot. All macro nutrients are equally
>>> important, which means that you need fat (solid fats too), carbs and
>>> protein.
>>
>> I do hit overtraining sometimes, and I noticed it when I can't even grip
>> the weight to do dumbbell rows. My fist just won't close. But when I
>> get that I either do something else, or walk out of the gym and come
>> back later.
>
> The way you describe it, it doesn't look like overtraining. It rather
> looks like your grip is failing you on your back day. Common thing,
> which should improve over time.
Andrzej, this is your fault for introducing the term overtraining into this
thread!!! 99.9% of people will never train hard enough, often enough or
consistently enough to induce overtraining.
>
> Overtraining is when training stimulus you inflict upon yourself is
> greater then your recovery ability for a long time. Let's say, several
> months, or so. It looks like you train hard, but you constantly become
> more tired, less focused, less enthusiastic with your lifting, your
> performance goes down, you feel depressed, irritable, you sleep badly
> and so on.
>
> If it happens, lighten your work outs or stay away from gym for a
> while. You should be able to recover then, and make new progress.
> But it must take long time to really kick in. Short term
> "overtraining", like several weeks, is called overreaching and isn't
> totally useless. You exceed your recovery ability, but for a short
> time only, so once you back off you should experience good progress.
> Planned overreaching is often a part of many training programs. For a
> beginner playing around the edge is probably not much useful, so do not
> go totally crazy with your workouts.
Thank you for clarifying but soooo much easier not to mention it in the
first place!!!
>
> Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
> overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's simplification,
> but there is something to it.
Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
choice!!!
--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter,
and those who matter don't mind."
- Dr. Seuss >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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Since: Oct 06, 2006
Posts: 241
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:50 am
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <jw7ah.9796$6t.9625@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>, SEAL
<usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote:
>
> Also known as the pump. I think it's technically called "hypertrophy".
No it's not. The pump you get has zip to do with hypertrophy. BTW, most
people on my forums have generally been happy with Ellis's program. >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Dnia 2006-11-26 Shute napisał(a):
> On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:51:51 -0000, "Bully" <bully1 RemoveThis @proteinbars.co.ok>
> wrote:
>
>>Andrzej, this is your fault for introducing the term overtraining into this
>>thread!!! 99.9% of people will never train hard enough, often enough or
>>consistently enough to induce overtraining.
>
> I doubt that. I think a lot of people overtrain.
Not really.
> I think you are
> confusing intensity with overtraining.
I think, it's you who might confuse it.
>>Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
>>4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
>>choice!!!
>
> Not for me. I don't feel like going back to the gym at all when I get
> overtrained. And training hard makes me sleep like a baby.
So you aren't overtraining. You can push like that further, until
you will experience symptoms Bully describes, and keep pushing for
several months longer. Then you'll overtrain and be in troubles.
Serious overtraining is no joke. In general you overstimulate your
system which produces a lot of cortisol. After a while lots of bad
things start to happen.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 614
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Dnia 2006-11-26 Bully napisał(a):
> "Andrzej Rosa" <bakters DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ekbaff$ros$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>
>> Finally, some people like to say, that there is no such a thing like
>> overtraining, only undersleeping and undereating. It's simplification,
>> but there is something to it.
>
> Yeah but when you are truly overtrained sleep becomes a problem [you wake at
> 4.00AM wondering if you missed your morning workout] so you don't have a
> choice!!!
You had your choice earlier. When you decided to train hard and forget
about sleep and nutrition.
--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 30
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David Cohen wrote:
> "ATP*" <waxwingslain.TakeThisOut@azurepane.com> wrote
> > "SEAL" <usseal3@gmail[removethis].com> wrote >> ATP* wrote:
> >> SEAL
> >
> > Wannabe SEAL, right?
>
> Maybe he just really likes Heidi Klum.
>
> David
Who doesn't?
ps >> Stay informed about: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program |
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External
Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Sep 30, 2006
Posts: 548
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Finally Bought Anthony Ellis' Program [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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