Dumbell Kings?

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"The Crow" <Thecrow.TakeThisOut@nobodyspimp.com> wrote in message
news:43e88882$0$6976$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
> on.
>
> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>
> I'm going with:
>
> One-legged dumbell squat

Not a novice move, I'm afraid. While some folks come by them pretty
easily, most don't.

> Overhead Dumbell press

Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.

> Press up

This is what most of us call a pushup, yes?

> Dips between two dining chairs

Nah, dips take a bit of figuring out depth and technique - how much to
lean, etc.

> What do you think and what would you do differently? (Apart from just
> saying 'everything'.)

The one-legged dumbbell deadlift, with the unused leg held to the back,
is a possibility. I find most people can learn this one pretty quickly
and you can either stand the dumbbells on end or raise them up a bit.
Going for the full ROM to the floor with the dumbbells laying on the
floor usually causes most people to bend their lower backs too much -
not a crisis given the relatively light weight but still not necessary
and less than ideal, IMHO.

Most novices can't squat with good form even with no weight, so
two-legged squats for good form might be a useful novice exercise, or
holding the dumbbells at the chest or shoulders while squatting.

I'd add a pullup bar if you could.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

"Steve Freides" <steve RemoveThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

>"The Crow" <Thecrow RemoveThis @nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
>> on.
>>
>> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
>> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
>> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
>> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
>> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
>> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>>
>> I'm going with:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> Overhead Dumbell press
>
>Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.

And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
weight?

Just thought I'd mention that.
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

JMW <jmw.RemoveThis@event.horizon> wrote:

> "Steve Freides" <steve.RemoveThis@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
> >"The Crow" <Thecrow.RemoveThis@nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
> >> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
> >> on.
> >>
> >> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
> >> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
> >> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
> >> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
> >> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
> >> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
> >>
> >> I'm going with:
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> Overhead Dumbell press
> >
> >Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
>
> And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
> is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
> weight?
>
> Just thought I'd mention that.

I kinda like doing Arnold presses. Are they very bad even with lighter
weights (seriously light, like 10-20 lbs) & no history of rotator cuff
problems?
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

dhrravr.RemoveThis@ohatzhapu.bet (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:

>JMW <jmw.RemoveThis@event.horizon> wrote:
>
>> "Steve Freides" <steve.RemoveThis@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"The Crow" <Thecrow.RemoveThis@nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>> >> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
>> >> on.
>> >>
>> >> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
>> >> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
>> >> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
>> >> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
>> >> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
>> >> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>> >>
>> >> I'm going with:
>> >>
>> >> [snip]
>> >>
>> >> Overhead Dumbell press
>> >
>> >Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
>>
>> And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
>> is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
>> weight?
>>
>> Just thought I'd mention that.
>
>I kinda like doing Arnold presses. Are they very bad even with lighter
>weights (seriously light, like 10-20 lbs) & no history of rotator cuff
>problems?

Probably not. The more weight you use, the more you risk impingement
when you twist into the internal rotation.
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

On Tue, 07 Feb 2006 23:56:05 -0500, JMW <jmw RemoveThis @event.horizon> wrote:

>"Steve Freides" <steve RemoveThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>>"The Crow" <Thecrow RemoveThis @nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>>> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
>>> on.
>>>
>>> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
>>> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
>>> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
>>> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
>>> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
>>> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>>>
>>> I'm going with:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Overhead Dumbell press
>>
>>Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
>
>And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
>is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
>weight?
>
>Just thought I'd mention that.

If you are suggesting that it is a bad idea, why not just say so and
tell the OP why? It would be so much more helpful and
non-confrontational.
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

"JMW" <jmw DeleteThis @event.horizon> wrote in message
news:v7uiu15vcbfpdr5ra94cr5ab551lmhomms@4ax.com...
> "Steve Freides" <steve DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>>"The Crow" <Thecrow DeleteThis @nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>>> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
>>> on.
>>>
>>> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
>>> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
>>> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
>>> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
>>> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
>>> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>>>
>>> I'm going with:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Overhead Dumbell press
>>
>>Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
>
> And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
> is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
> weight?

Yes, I do. My shoulders are probably the healthiest thing on me and I
credit daily Arnold presses, done with heavy kettlebells. Your
shoulders aren't like, e.g., your neck or spine, where bending in
multiple planes at the same time can be risky.

And let's be clear about "internal rotation" in this context. You are
_not_ performing one-plane rehab exercise here - shoulder rehab
exercises that work on that sort of thing are typically done with light
weights. But picking something up, bringing it to your chest, and
pressing it overhead is a perfectly natural movement that everyone's
shoulders were designed to do and need not be avoided. This is not
internal (or, for that matter, external) rotation in the manner of,
e.g., swimming butterfly stoke, something that has been known to cause
impingement injuries for some people. I weigh 150 lbs. and my normal
working weight for these is a 28 kg kettlebell - that's about 62 lbs.
I've managed 3 reps with a 32 kg (70 lb.) kb. Certainly not phenomenal
pressing by any standard but it took me a while to get to this level and
I'm delighted to be able to strict press almost half my bodyweight with
one arm.

One more point. Performing these one arm at a time and standing is,
IMHO, a superior exercise for most people most of the time. It lets
one's shoulders find a natural path to the top. Performing the movement
seated and without back support is excellent exercise but, again IMHO,
best reserved for someone with some experience at these. Likewise
performing them with both arms at the same time should be considered a
more advanced version of the exercise. The one-armed standing version
encourages, and requires, a tight midsection and will help develop that
as well.

> Just thought I'd mention that.

OK. Just thought I'd respond.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

"Steve Freides" <steve RemoveThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

>"JMW" <jmw RemoveThis @event.horizon> wrote in message
>news:v7uiu15vcbfpdr5ra94cr5ab551lmhomms@4ax.com...
>> "Steve Freides" <steve RemoveThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"The Crow" <Thecrow RemoveThis @nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>>>> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
>>>> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
>>>> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
>>>> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
>>>> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
>>>> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>>>>
>>>> I'm going with:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Overhead Dumbell press
>>>
>>>Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
>>
>> And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
>> is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
>> weight?
>
>Yes, I do. My shoulders are probably the healthiest thing on me and I
>credit daily Arnold presses, done with heavy kettlebells. Your
>shoulders aren't like, e.g., your neck or spine, where bending in
>multiple planes at the same time can be risky.
>
>And let's be clear about "internal rotation" in this context. You are
>_not_ performing one-plane rehab exercise here - shoulder rehab
>exercises that work on that sort of thing are typically done with light
>weights. But picking something up, bringing it to your chest, and
>pressing it overhead is a perfectly natural movement that everyone's
>shoulders were designed to do and need not be avoided. This is not
>internal (or, for that matter, external) rotation in the manner of,
>e.g., swimming butterfly stoke, something that has been known to cause
>impingement injuries for some people.

Do you know what you're talking about, Steve? Do you know the
difference between a standard overhead dumbbell press and an Arnold
press? Are you telling me there is no internal rotation involved in
turning the dumbbell handles a full 180°?
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

"JMW" <jmw DeleteThis @event.horizon> wrote in message
news:0cbku11a1sjucllsj2d14ratgbkf02bijf@4ax.com...
> "Steve Freides" <steve DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>
>>"JMW" <jmw DeleteThis @event.horizon> wrote in message
>>news:v7uiu15vcbfpdr5ra94cr5ab551lmhomms@4ax.com...
>>> "Steve Freides" <steve DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"The Crow" <Thecrow DeleteThis @nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
>>>>> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to
>>>>> chew
>>>>> on.
>>>>>
>>>>> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
>>>>> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
>>>>> overly complex movements (although you except that this is
>>>>> something
>>>>> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
>>>>> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
>>>>> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going with:
>>>>>
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> Overhead Dumbell press
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
>>>
>>> And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
>>> is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
>>> weight?
>>
>>Yes, I do. My shoulders are probably the healthiest thing on me and I
>>credit daily Arnold presses, done with heavy kettlebells. Your
>>shoulders aren't like, e.g., your neck or spine, where bending in
>>multiple planes at the same time can be risky.
>>
>>And let's be clear about "internal rotation" in this context. You are
>>_not_ performing one-plane rehab exercise here - shoulder rehab
>>exercises that work on that sort of thing are typically done with
>>light
>>weights. But picking something up, bringing it to your chest, and
>>pressing it overhead is a perfectly natural movement that everyone's
>>shoulders were designed to do and need not be avoided. This is not
>>internal (or, for that matter, external) rotation in the manner of,
>>e.g., swimming butterfly stoke, something that has been known to cause
>>impingement injuries for some people.
>
> Do you know what you're talking about, Steve? Do you know the
> difference between a standard overhead dumbbell press and an Arnold
> press? Are you telling me there is no internal rotation involved in
> turning the dumbbell handles a full 180°?

We'll let the people reading decide. Yes. No. I'm frankly surprised
you're citing the Arnold Press as somehow being dangerous. Care to
point us to someone's opinion other than yours that it's a bad exercise?

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

JMW <jmw DeleteThis @event.horizon> wrote:

> dhrravr DeleteThis @ohatzhapu.bet (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>
> >JMW <jmw DeleteThis @event.horizon> wrote:
> >
> >> "Steve Freides" <steve DeleteThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"The Crow" <Thecrow DeleteThis @nobodyspimp.com> wrote:
> >> >> Okay, I have a hypothetical (currently) question for you all to chew
> >> >> on.
> >> >>
> >> >> You have nothing but a pair of dumbells to work out with, in your
> >> >> apartment/flat. You are also a novice, and so are intimidated by
> >> >> overly complex movements (although you except that this is something
> >> >> you're just going to have to get over). You want an effective
> >> >> exercise regime to start working out with, keeping it relatively
> >> >> simple and abbreviated first of all, say four exercises?
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm going with:
> >> >>
> >> >> [snip]
> >> >>
> >> >> Overhead Dumbell press
> >> >
> >> >Yes, I'd go with the Arnold press.
> >>
> >> And you think that internal rotation combined with an overhead press
> >> is a good idea for one's rotator cuffs, especially with a heavy
> >> weight?
> >>
> >> Just thought I'd mention that.
> >
> >I kinda like doing Arnold presses. Are they very bad even with lighter
> >weights (seriously light, like 10-20 lbs) & no history of rotator cuff
> >problems?
>
> Probably not. The more weight you use, the more you risk impingement
> when you twist into the internal rotation.

I don't do them all the time, but sometimes I like to change it up a
little. I'll be sure to keep the weight low and not do them too often.

Thanks!
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 20:23:17 -0500, Curt James <cwj111.RemoveThis@psu.edu> wrote:

>Anyway...
>
>http://www.google.com/search?q=rotating+dumbbell+shoulder+presses&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-29,GGLG:en&start=10&sa=N
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-29%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=rotating+dumbbell+shoulder+presses%2C+dangers&btnG=Search
>
>Interesting reading.
>

AND I choked my chicken 6x while reading it.

Cunt James
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

"Steve Freides" <steve RemoveThis @fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message

> We'll let the people reading decide. Yes. No. I'm frankly surprised
> you're citing the Arnold Press as somehow being dangerous. Care to point
> us to someone's opinion other than yours that it's a bad exercise?
>

Steve, I recall getting into it with you a while back about shoulders, I
think you were recommending subluxing the shoulder on bar hangs. At any
rate, I think you have been blessed with shoulder joints that can withstand
a lot of use and abuse. That's great, but it's not necessarily the norm in
the general population. Overhead pressing movements can be problematic for
an awful lot of people, not to mention throwing in a rotational component.

> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Dumbell Kings? 

Ranieri wrote:

> "Steve Freides" <steve.TakeThisOut@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
>
>
>>We'll let the people reading decide. Yes. No. I'm frankly surprised
>>you're citing the Arnold Press as somehow being dangerous. Care to point
>>us to someone's opinion other than yours that it's a bad exercise?
>>
>
>
> Steve, I recall getting into it with you a while back about shoulders, I
> think you were recommending subluxing the shoulder on bar hangs. At any
> rate, I think you have been blessed with shoulder joints that can withstand
> a lot of use and abuse. That's great, but it's not necessarily the norm in
> the general population. Overhead pressing movements can be problematic for
> an awful lot of people, not to mention throwing in a rotational component.

My shoulders are getting worse every year - nearly every month. What I
keep wondering is if it it's a "use it or lose it" thing. If I don't do
shoulder presses will I lose the ability altogether?

I wish a saw a way towards regaining shoulder function.

Dally
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