Conflicting Accounts

In article <1171317047.068703.225070.TakeThisOut@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com>,
"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Okay, a few true or falses:
>
> 1) Is excess protein stored as fat, or excreted as feces?

Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess
protein is not the bodies preferred energy source.

>
> 2) Does eating close to sleep "promote fat," or does it help stave off
> catabolic processes?

Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to
do with body composition.
>
> 3) Is the USRDA of protein simply the minimum to avoid deficiency and
> malnutrition, or is it the healthy standard of the overwhelming
> majority of people, regardless of athletic activity?

Neither.
>
>
> I ask because I read pro and con on every one of those issues from
> what appear to be respectable sources.
>
> Too bad that the government doesn't see the need to fund research into
> healthy lifestyles -- it's too concerned with the very fat, the very
> sick, and the very weak. The little study concerning athletes and the
> otherwise healthy seems limited to funding from the health industry.
>

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html

--
Keith
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On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, LFM wrote:

>
> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1171320022.432909.8980@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>> Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to
>>> do with body composition.
>>
>> Thing is, supposedly the lower metabolism of sleep somehow makes carbs
>> floating in the blood more susceptible to capture as fat.
>>
>> So it really doesn't matter if one eats right before bed?? Or even an
>> hour or two beforehand? Or maybe just something light?
>
> not from scientific study, just from personal experience.....
>
> I lose more weight by not eating in the evenings - all other things being
> equal.
>
> For instance, if I stick to a 1200 caloried diet, and 1hr cardio 4 times a
> week plus 3 full body weight workouts, I lose weight better if I consume my
> 1200 calories before 6pm than if I start eating later in the day and finish
> consuming later at night.
>
> Personally though, I will have a light snack in the evenings, but the bulk
> of my calories are consumed between 9am and 3pm.

Here's the science: calories eaten - calories used = surplus stored
energy (assuming the subtrahend is greater than the minuend). No
exceptions.

--Sir Jackery
 >> Stay informed about: Conflicting Accounts 

"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1171320022.432909.8980@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to
>> do with body composition.
>
> Thing is, supposedly the lower metabolism of sleep somehow makes carbs
> floating in the blood more susceptible to capture as fat.
>
> So it really doesn't matter if one eats right before bed?? Or even an
> hour or two beforehand? Or maybe just something light?

not from scientific study, just from personal experience.....

I lose more weight by not eating in the evenings - all other things being
equal.

For instance, if I stick to a 1200 caloried diet, and 1hr cardio 4 times a
week plus 3 full body weight workouts, I lose weight better if I consume my
1200 calories before 6pm than if I start eating later in the day and finish
consuming later at night.

Personally though, I will have a light snack in the evenings, but the bulk
of my calories are consumed between 9am and 3pm.
 >> Stay informed about: Conflicting Accounts 

On Feb 12, 2:32 pm, Hobbes <khobman... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to
> do with body composition.

Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around the
time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean storing
more bodyfat even if you are arent an athlete:

"One study, for instance, showed that female gymnasts and runners who
didn't eat or snack for three hours or longer had the highest body fat
percentages--even if they weren't consuming more calories than they
were burning. Furthermore, the longer the gap between eating times,
the higher the body fat, especially if they exercised during those
noneating periods. Keep in mind that these were competitive athletes
training hours every day--they weren't overweight. But when compared
to fellow runners and gymnasts, those who ate fewer and bigger meals
retained higher levels of body fat. Perhaps even more surprising, the
same study showed that those who ate less than their energy needs--
traditionally the recipe for weight loss-weren't losing weight. The
runners, for example, ate an average of 200 to 400 fewer daily
calories than they were burning, and some of these athletes reached
points during the day when, because they were performing intense
exercise without having eaten recently, they dipped into a caloric
deficit of up to 1,100 calories for a few hours. But these exercisers
were not losing weight, as you'd expect; in fact, they were among the
"fattest" of the bunch. The reason, suspects Benardot, is that when
deprived of food, even for just a few hours, the body desperately
clings to any calorie it gets."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KGB/is_6_5/ai_n6110816

"Others have found that some athletes with higher average within-day
energy deficits (as measured by frequency and magnitude of deficit)
have significantly higher body fat percentages. In a recent study by
Deutz et al., the greater the energy deficit in gymnasts the higher
the percentage of body fat. The authors theorized that the within-day
energy restriction caused an adaptive reduction in resting energy
expenditure and an increase in fat storage."
http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/nutrition/tips-from-the-fuel-coach-00...9-print


joanne
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On Feb 12, 11:31 pm, "joanne" <jgr... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:32 pm, Hobbes <khobman... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to
> > do with body composition.
>
> Wellll I recall reading about fatter meal skipper gymnasts around the
> time of the Olympics .. the timing of eating can possibly mean storing
> more bodyfat even if you are arent an athlete:
>
> "One study, for instance, showed that female gymnasts and runners who
> didn't eat or snack for three hours or longer had the highest body fat
> percentages--even if they weren't consuming more calories than they
> were burning. Furthermore, the longer the gap between eating times,
> the higher the body fat, especially if they exercised during those
> noneating periods. Keep in mind that these were competitive athletes
> training hours every day--they weren't overweight. But when compared
> to fellow runners and gymnasts, those who ate fewer and bigger meals
> retained higher levels of body fat. Perhaps even more surprising, the
> same study showed that those who ate less than their energy needs--
> traditionally the recipe for weight loss-weren't losing weight. The
> runners, for example, ate an average of 200 to 400 fewer daily
> calories than they were burning, and some of these athletes reached
> points during the day when, because they were performing intense
> exercise without having eaten recently, they dipped into a caloric
> deficit of up to 1,100 calories for a few hours. But these exercisers
> were not losing weight, as you'd expect; in fact, they were among the
> "fattest" of the bunch. The reason, suspects Benardot, is that when
> deprived of food, even for just a few hours, the body desperately
> clings to any calorie it gets."http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KGB/is_6_5/ai_n6110816
>
> "Others have found that some athletes with higher average within-day
> energy deficits (as measured by frequency and magnitude of deficit)
> have significantly higher body fat percentages. In a recent study by
> Deutz et al., the greater the energy deficit in gymnasts the higher
> the percentage of body fat. The authors theorized that the within-day
> energy restriction caused an adaptive reduction in resting energy
> expenditure and an increase in fat storage."http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/nutrition/tips-from-the-fuel-coach-0...
>
> joanne


AMAZING!!!!

I burn almost 1,000 calories each Sunday doing my four or five-hour
workouts (actually, that's a conservative estimate: if elliptical and
treadmill read-outs are to be taken at face value, I burn a bit over
1,500 on aerobics alone!!)...I try to keep my daily caloric intake
under 2,000 calories on top of all that (I also exercise Wednesdays
and Fridays for two to three hours each, though with only half the
aerobics involved)...I was wondering why I only manage losing a mere
pound a week on average!

Ah, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is fat....
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Sir Jackery <roehrig.DeleteThis@cs.ucdavis.edu> wrote in part:

>Here's the science: calories eaten - calories used = surplus stored
>energy (assuming the subtrahend is greater than the minuend). No
>exceptions.

Bleeding, parasites, diarrhea, vomiting, diabetes (peeing glucose),
amputation,... I could go on and on with exceptions. Don't you think
bulimics have figured out how to cheat?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis.DeleteThis@alum.mit.edu
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On Feb 12, 6:25 pm, "LFM" <nothank....RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
> not from scientific study, just from personal experience.....
>
> I lose more weight by not eating in the evenings - all other things being
> equal.
>
> For instance, if I stick to a 1200 caloried diet, and 1hr cardio 4 times a
> week plus 3 full body weight workouts, I lose weight better if I consume my
> 1200 calories before 6pm than if I start eating later in the day and finish
> consuming later at night.
>
> Personally though, I will have a light snack in the evenings, but the bulk
> of my calories are consumed between 9am and 3pm.


Interesting...my mother also thought that eating too close to sleeping
promotes obesity -- but then again, she mistook my 17" biceps for
fat! No joke, my sister had to explain to her that it was all muscle
(she's from "the Old Country").

But in general, I haven't noticed putting on weight more easily after
eating close to bedtime...though on the few occasions that I did
notice, it may have more to do with a particularly gluttonous feast
more than simple timing! And so I ask....

BTW, doesn't the body just shut down during sleep?? Digestion seems
like a pretty big task (based on the old notion of not exercising
right after a meal because your blood will be too busy with the
digestive process to also carry oxygen around) for the body to be
doing while it's totally resting, no? I do remember sometimes waking
up in the middle of the night with my stomach (after one of them
aforementioned feasts) all "busy"...nothing bad or painful, but I
could definitely feel it, like, doing its thing, and being a bit
annoyed thinking I was woken up by it!
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Hobbes <khobman800.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Okay, a few true or falses:
>>
>> 1) Is excess protein stored as fat, or excreted as feces?
>
>Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess
>protein is not the bodies preferred energy source.

Protein is not stored well. Even the protein in muscle in constantly
turning over. Excess protein is deaminated and converted to glucose
or ketone bodies for energy. If the glucose is not used for energy,
it's converted and stored as fat.
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In article <1171320022.432909.8980 RemoveThis @m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Feb 12, 5:32 pm, Hobbes <khobman... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Excess calories, whether protein, carb or fat, are stored as fat. Excess
> > protein is not the bodies preferred energy source.
>
> Okay. I have this Time-Life Book (from the mid-'80s, though) which
> says excess protein is excreted. I've also read that in a few other
> places.

I suppose some there is more possibility of excess protein being
excreted as opposed to carbs or fat, but for practical purposes - nope.
>
> > Excess calories promotes fat. Timing of nutritional intake has little to
> > do with body composition.
>
> Thing is, supposedly the lower metabolism of sleep somehow makes carbs
> floating in the blood more susceptible to capture as fat.
>
> So it really doesn't matter if one eats right before bed?? Or even an
> hour or two beforehand? Or maybe just something light?

Not really. It's pretty simple - calories in versus calories expended.
If not eating in the evening helps control calories in - then mebbe.
>
> > Neither.
>
> Huh?? So what does it have to do with???

I don't consider the gov't recommendations very good, which I why I
linked to the Harvard site. Even so, it would depend on the person.
goals, training, etc.
>
> > http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html
>
> HEY!! Great link; thanks!!!

Zalright.

--
Keith
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"joanne" <jgrrl2 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> schreef:

" The authors theorized that the within-day
energy restriction caused an adaptive reduction in resting energy
expenditure and an increase in fat storage."

And studies like this, will be used again, and again, and again, and again,
by fat people to show everyone they are NOT eating too much, and that eating
too much is not the problem.

Especially women.

There are more grossly obese Americans then Etheopeans.

And if caloric restriction doesnt cause weight loss, because of this alleged
build in mechanism we have that rapidly slows our mechanism if we do, then
that SAME mechanism will interfere by speeding up the metabblism when one is
eating more in an attempt to gain weight.

Which is BS.

I am getting tired to read studies used by fat people as an excuse NOT to
eat less.

Want to lose weight?

DIET is the way to go!

And not for 3 months on, 3 months of, like Oprah, but a restriction for the
rest of your life.

--
Pete
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On Feb 13, 4:45 am, "Pete" <phouts....RemoveThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
>
> You know what happens if you run after you eat?
>
> Or work out intensely?

No, 'cause I already know. Basic Combat Training in Army Infantry had
us running straight to chow and right back out, sometimes getting
"smoked" right afterwards, especially during the first two weeks. I
was quite amazed no one ever threw up from it. I never had any
problems jumping around after a meal, ever since I was a kid -- they
let us out at lunchtime to play, after all, right after we eat -- so I
was surprised to hear people advise against it. Seems like something
everybody did!

> Humans can digest just about anything while sleeping. As most animals can.

Okay, but is it the same kind of digestion, or is it somehow different
(slower, maybe, due to overall decreased metabolism, or maybe faster,
actually, due to everything else shutting down?)?

> Ever wondered why a big meal makes you feel kinda sleepy?

I have. Why, exactly? What would be the evolutionary advantage, and
what's going on biochemically? Do other animals also feel sleepy
after a meal?

> --
> Pete
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On Feb 13, 4:32 am, "Pete" <phouts....RemoveThis@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
>
>
> And studies like this, will be used again, and again, and again, and again,
> by fat people to show everyone they are NOT eating too much, and that eating
> too much is not the problem.
>
> Especially women.

Frankly, I'd rather have a fat woman than a skinny woman, especially
the older she is.

> There are more grossly obese Americans then Etheopeans.

Euros also tend to be shorter. I'll never forget my surprise at the
Parisian police. Their cars are so small! And the gendarmerie are
short and skinny. Seriously, it was almost like being in Asia.

> And if caloric restriction doesnt cause weight loss, because of this alleged
> build in mechanism we have that rapidly slows our mechanism if we do, then
> that SAME mechanism will interfere by speeding up the metabblism when one is
> eating more in an attempt to gain weight.
>
> Which is BS.

Hey, wait a minute, I know that I often break out in a sweat after a
"real meal"...that's increased metabolism, init??

> I am getting tired to read studies used by fat people as an excuse NOT to
> eat less.

That folks may misuse such studies do not impugn the studies
themselves.

> Want to lose weight?
>
> DIET is the way to go!

Well, I think the implication is to also keep off the weight, and many
long-term studies report that only in combination with regular
exercise can that happen for most people.

> And not for 3 months on, 3 months of, like Oprah, but a restriction for the
> rest of your life.

Well, doing anything for the rest of your life -- practicing piano,
doing bike stunts, etc. -- tends to achieve results, yes. That's not
saying much, though, in the sense of looking for the "more proximate"
factors.

> --
> Pete
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On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Pete wrote:

> "joanne" <jgrrl2.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> schreef:
>
> " The authors theorized that the within-day
> energy restriction caused an adaptive reduction in resting energy
> expenditure and an increase in fat storage."
>
> And studies like this, will be used again, and again, and again, and again,
> by fat people to show everyone they are NOT eating too much, and that eating
> too much is not the problem.
>
> Especially women.
>
> There are more grossly obese Americans then Etheopeans.
>
> And if caloric restriction doesnt cause weight loss, because of this alleged
> build in mechanism we have that rapidly slows our mechanism if we do, then
> that SAME mechanism will interfere by speeding up the metabblism when one is
> eating more in an attempt to gain weight.
>
> Which is BS.
>
> I am getting tired to read studies used by fat people as an excuse NOT to
> eat less.
>
> Want to lose weight?
>
> DIET is the way to go!
>
> And not for 3 months on, 3 months of, like Oprah, but a restriction for the
> rest of your life.
>
> --
> Pete

Here here! Now if only everyone understood this and I didn't have to hear
fat people complaining about their "genetic inferiority" all the time.
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